Author Topic: Whether or not you believe in the war....  (Read 1045 times)

Offline muckmaw

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Whether or not you believe in the war....
« on: January 29, 2003, 02:17:35 PM »
There are going to be American kids fighting it.

Read this article, and then the link below. It's a way to send carepackages to the guys on the front line, for those who wish to support our boys. (I think it's called Adopt a Sailor...or something)

Below is the story.
SAN DIEGO - It was just around midnight Tuesday night, and the outdoor courtyard at Dick's Last Resort was throbbing with the rowdy energy of a  spring break bacchanal. There was loud rock music blaring out of the stereo speakers, and the air was filled with the distinct and somewhat revolting aroma of deep-fried bar food, cigarette smoke and spilled beer. Dick's is the sort of bar-restaurant ideally suited for Super Bowl week mischief, because it has a down-and-dirty roadhouse feel to it. The waiters, waitresses and bartenders are charmingly rude, and the wood floors are covered with sand and all sorts of indistinguishable debris. The
clientele on this evening is a fascinating mix of twenty-something college
kids, thirty-something conventioneers and 40-something Super Bowl
high-rollers.
Yet there was one table in Dick's courtyard Tuesday night that was
noticeably different from the others. There were six young men at the table

and one young woman, and while they were drinking like everyone else in the

room, there was something all too serious going on at this table that let

you know that their thoughts were a long way from the mindless frivolity of


Super Bowl week.
Maybe it was the close-cropped "barracks haircuts" that gave them away. All

the men's heads were cut in that familiar look of a professional soldier,

skin-close on the sides, and on top a tight shock of hair that resembled
new shoe-brush bristles.
"We're Marines," one man told me. "And tomorrow we're boarding a ship for
.
. . well . . . I really can't tell you where, but you know."
Of course we knew. In less than an hour, they would report back to a ship

docked along the Southern California coast, then on Wednesday head across

the Pacific Ocean, bound for a potential war in Iraq. So this was no Super

Bowl party for them. This was their last night out on the town. One Marine

was saying goodbye to his wife. The others were not so lucky. They all just

sat around the table, throwing back beers and wrestling with the sobering

uncertainty of the rest of their lives.

"We're going to war and none of us knows if we're ever coming back," said

another Marine, a 28-year-old from Southern Illinois. They all requested
that I not use their names. "Just tell 'em we're the men of (Marine
Aviation Land Support Squad 39)," they said.

On Super Bowl Sunday, the men of MALS 29 will be watching the game from the

mess hall of their ship. "That is, if we're lucky and the weather is good

and it doesn't interfere with the satellite signal," said the Marine with

the bald head and burnt-orange shirt. "But I gotta tell you, I'm not that

big a sports fan anymore. It's going to be the first pro football game I've

watched in . . . I can't even remember."
Why is that?

"Well, here's my problem with pro sports today," he said. "I don't care
whether it's football, basketball or baseball. Guys are complaining about

making $6 million instead of $7 million, and what is their job? Playing a

damned game. You know what I made last year? I made $14,000. They pay me
$14,000, and you know what my job description is? I'm paid to take a
bullet."
When he said those words, it positively staggered me.

Fourteen thousand dollars to take a bullet.

Not a day goes by that I am not reminded of what a wonderful life I lead.
I
am paid to write about sports and tell stories on radio and television
about the games people play. But sometimes, even in the midst of a grand
sporting event, something happens to put the frivolity of sports into its

proper perspective, and this was it.
Fourteen thousand dollars to take a bullet.
As I sit here writing from my hotel room, I can look out my balcony window

and I see a Navy battleship cutting through the San Diego Bay, heading out

to sea. I can see the sailors standing on the deck as the ship sails past

Coronado Island, the San Diego Marina and the downtown Seaport Village, and

I wonder if any of the men from MALS 39 are aboard.
It was only 12 hours ago that I was sitting at the table with my guys,
buying them beers, and listening to their soldier stories. The Marine from

Southern Illinois who sat to my right pointed to the bald Marine in the
orange shirt who was seated to my left. "You know, I don't even know this

guy, can you believe that? We just met a few hours ago when we came into
Dick's. Oh, I've seen him on the base, but I've never met him before
tonight. But here's what's so special about that man, and why I love that

man. He's my brother. Semper Fi. I know a guy back home, and he is my best

friend. I'm 28 years old and we've known each other all our lives. But
today, that friend is more of a stranger to me than that Marine sitting
over there, who I've never met before tonight. That's why they call it a
Band of Brothers."
The little Marine in the orange shirt lifted his glass toward the Marine
from Southern Illinois and nodded his head. "That's right," he said.
"That's my brother over there, and I'm gonna take a bullet for him if I
have to."

He said it with a calm and jolting certainty. There was a moving, but
chilling, pride in his words.
All around them, people were drinking, shouting and laughing. The college

kids and the conventioneers and NFL high-rollers were living the good,
carefree life. Across the street, a storefront that was vacant two weeks
ago was now filled with $30 caps, $400 leather jackets, $40 mugs and $27
T-shirts with the fancy blue and yellow Super Bowl XXXVII logo embroidered

on it.
From every end of the streets of downtown San Diego's fabled Gaslamp
Quarter, Super Bowl revelers toasted the Raiders and the Bucanneers with
grog-sized mugs filled with beers and rums. But just around midnight in the

middle of the courtyard of Dick's Last Resort, a far more deserving toast

was going up to the men of MALS 39. We clicked our glasses together, and a

few minutes later, they quietly slipped out the courtyard gates.
Suddenly, the Super Bowl didn't seem so important anymore.


To adopt a sailor, use this link:
http://www.operation-enterprise.org/home.htm

Offline miko2d

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Whether or not you believe in the war....
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2003, 02:34:32 PM »
What the heck is "Marine Aviation Land Support Squad"?

 Are those the guys sneaking behind the enemy lines to laser-designate the targets for aviation?

 Or are those the guys who will service the planes on an airbase in Bahrein or Turkey and who's only chance to see combat is if Iraqi army annihilates US ground combat troops, sinks all the US ships and planes in the region that could possibly evacuate them and then conducts extensive offensive occupying US bases in the region?

 As for those guys risking their lives/killing people - if they really do it just for money, would they be worth any more sympathy if it's 14 grand or 14 mil?
 Or should we pity poore dupes because they did not really expect to be sent to fight when they enlisted for such a pitifull sum?

 miko

Offline Tumor

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Whether or not you believe in the war....
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2003, 02:48:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d

 Or are those the guys who will service the planes on an airbase in Bahrein or Turkey and who's only chance to see combat is if Iraqi army annihilates US ground combat troops, sinks all the US ships and planes in the region that could possibly evacuate them and then conducts extensive offensive occupying US bases in the region?

 miko


Maybe you should look at certain weapons ranges and their capabilities.  I assure you those loser support guys who aren't at the "front" are.
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline Nifty

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Whether or not you believe in the war....
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2003, 02:53:56 PM »
no, it's more the Marine saying he can't take an athlete or the games they play seriously when those athletes are complaining about only making $6 mil a year, when the guys/gals that keep it so he can make money playing a game make far less, and are generally underappreciated (tho that part has changed a bit since 9/11.)

I don't watch or like baseball anymore for the same reason.  An NFL team is restricted to $75 mil for 54 players.  Baseball players threatened to strike because the owners wanted to put a luxury tax (not even restrict) spending over $100 mil (or whatever the figure was) on 25 players.  If the NFL, NBA, NHL (and even moreso, our soccer players) can deal with salary caps and making "less" money, why can't the prima donna baseball players?

Regardless, I don't think the guy was saying "feel sorry for me because I only make $14,000" as much as he was saying "I can't respect someone who complains about 6 mil vs 7 mil for playing a game."
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Offline midnight Target

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Whether or not you believe in the war....
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2003, 02:59:09 PM »
A park near my home is named after a "Ground Support" soldier who was killed when a scud missile hit her barracks.

They are all going into harms way, and I resent any implication that some might have it easy! :mad:

Offline muckmaw

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Whether or not you believe in the war....
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2003, 03:02:29 PM »
Your missing the point.

These men and women are doing something most of us cannot or are unwilling to do. Right are wrong, they are following orders and adhering to their oaths, and going into harms way.

I'll be the first to admit, I did'nt have the balls to join the military, though I wish I did, so I admire, respect, and will support those who did, in any way I can afford.

Offline Kanth

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Whether or not you believe in the war....
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2003, 03:16:32 PM »
 If it's the one that hit the barracks in Saudi, I was there and I watched it hit. It hit right across the street from our motorpool at the time..

(I believe there was only one that hit barracks full of marines in Saudi)

Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
A park near my home is named after a "Ground Support" soldier who was killed when a scud missile hit her barracks.

They are all going into harms way, and I resent any implication that some might have it easy! :mad:
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Offline Curval

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Whether or not you believe in the war....
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2003, 03:24:35 PM »
Go kick their tulips and get home safe!

to all who are on their way.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline miko2d

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Whether or not you believe in the war....
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2003, 03:29:25 PM »
They are all going into harms way, and I resent any implication that some might have it easy!

 Easy - I do not know. Much less dangerous - yes, certainly. The level of danger is exactly quantifiable. After the war, compare the mortality among combat troops with mortality among rear-echeon support, adjusted for mortality rate during peacetime.

 If every REMF claims that his job is taking bullet for his country, it diminishes the merit of guys who really get shot at. That's what I resent.

 miko

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2003, 03:37:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d

 Easy - I do not know. Much less dangerous - yes, certainly. The level of danger is exactly quantifiable. After the war, compare the mortality among combat troops with mortality among rear-echeon support, adjusted for mortality rate during peacetime.

 If every REMF claims that his job is taking bullet for his country, it diminishes the merit of guys who really get shot at. That's what I resent.

 miko


Maybe you should pull up those numbers for the Gulf War. I bet the rear areas had more casualties. (deaths at least).

Offline weazel

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Whether or not you believe in the war....
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2003, 03:38:55 PM »
I wish I had a high I.Q.  :rolleyes:

Offline Smut

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Whether or not you believe in the war....
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2003, 03:47:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
Easy - I do not know. Much less dangerous - yes, certainly. The level of danger is exactly quantifiable. After the war, compare the mortality among combat troops with mortality among rear-echeon support, adjusted for mortality rate during peacetime.


Much less dangerous? You don't know much about tactical aviation, do you? Marine squadrons often fly from carriers.

There are few places more dangerous to work than the flight deck of an aircraft carrier. At night. Now add "warloads" on all jets and a packed bomb farm.

Been there, done that (in a war zone)...I've watched men die for their country right there on the flightdeck. So shut the diddly up about something you know nothing about.

Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
If every REMF claims that his job is taking bullet for his country, it diminishes the merit of guys who really get shot at. That's what I resent.
 miko


I resent you. So there.

Clueless diddly.

I support ALL the troops. Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines.

They don't do it for the money. I sure as hell didn't.

-Smut

Offline funkedup

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Whether or not you believe in the war....
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2003, 03:52:28 PM »
Marine aviation also operates very close to the front lines.  AV-8 and helo squadrons are set up to use forward operating bases.  It's definitely a possible scenario that units like this could be overrun by enemy units.  AFAIK everybody in the USMC has a rifle.

Offline Kanth

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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2003, 04:21:22 PM »
Quote

U.S. casualties: 148 battle deaths, 145 nonbattle deaths

Army: 98 battle; 105 nonbattle
Navy: 6 battle; 8 nonbattle
Marines: 24 battle; 26 nonbattle
Air Force: 20 battle; 6 nonbattle
Women killed: 15

U.S. wounded in action: 467

British casualties: 24, nine by U.S. fire

British wounded in action: 10

French casualties: 2

French wounded in action: 25 (estimated)

Allied Arab casualties: 39

Allied combat air sorties flown: More than 116,000

Coalition aircraft losses: 75 (63 U.S., 12 Allied)

Fixed wing: 37 combat, 15 noncombat (U.S. losses -- 28 combat, 12 noncombat; no U.S. losses in air-to-air engagements)
Helicopters: 5 combat, 18 noncombat (all U.S.)


http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/gulf.war/facts/gulfwar/

unrelated: (Apparently women don't belong to any of the armed forces according to stupid bellybutton CNN.)
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Offline Tumor

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Whether or not you believe in the war....
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2003, 05:17:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nifty

Regardless, I don't think the guy was saying "feel sorry for me because I only make $14,000" as much as he was saying "I can't respect someone who complains about 6 mil vs 7 mil for playing a game."


Bingo.... I have the same attitude.  Don't get me wrong, the military is chock full of sports fanatics and I'd be the last one to turn down the offer of a cool million because I can bounce a ball really good lol.  I'm just one of those who ceased to take any sport any more seriously than what it was... a game.
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann