Author Topic: Will there be PAC planes?? (Read 1041 times)

F4UDOA · « **on:** January 30, 2003, 05:44:05 PM »

Just wondering?

It seems as if 9 out of 10 senarios have no Nany or Japanese birds.

Is this going to be the BOB arena or are we going to get to fly the birds we want to?

brady · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2003, 07:26:03 PM »

Their are clearly tons on wholes in the Pac plane set paticulary on the Japanese side, but I wounder besides us plane geeks if anyone realy notices things like that?

Batz · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2003, 07:32:24 PM »

I notice it.

Reschke · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2003, 07:38:33 PM »

I am with F4UDOA on this one. I would only hope that the ToD as it will be known would rotate frequently or at least have a separate arena for PAC missions. If not then I would find myself sticking to the MA and CT (if it will still exist) and heading over to Target: Rabaul to get my F4U series fix.

Karnak · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2003, 08:51:43 PM »

Then why don't you USN guys ever push for Japanese aircraft along with yet another version of the F4U or other US Pacific Theatre aircraft when you request aircraft? Why do you only want American aircraft in the Pacific?

Arlo · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2003, 08:59:46 PM »

Sez who? More targets is gude.

Catapults for late war US carriers!

F4UDOA · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2003, 10:17:23 PM »

Karnak,

We have every F4U WW2 varient (that saw combat) possible now with the possible exception of the F4U-4B or F4U-2

I would luv to see more japanese A/C. Not the ones we are getting however. I want the Ki-44 first, then the Grace, Irving(Gekko) and then the Ki-84 and Betty.

Also an early F6F-3, P-38F and Airacobra would be nice but the Japanese A/C are more important now.

However my fear is that the CM's seem to be in luv with the Euro plane set. I for one find it a bit overdone.

Batz · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2003, 10:20:34 PM »

what planes would like to fly your f4us against given the current planeset?

Karnak is correct in that to have a decent pac set up, one that can hold up over a tour then theres need to be more IJA/IJN aircraft.

There also to get a really good set up planes like the F6f-3 P39 b25 as well as earlier variants of some of the other usn planes.

It would great to have a large 512 x 512 map Rabaul, New Guinea North tip of australia etc.......

I think everyone would enjoy that if the planset was filled out.

Karnak · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2003, 10:35:09 PM »

F4UDOA,

There is also the F4U-1a that has not been added. Mind you, I'm none too keen on it either.

What I am talking about is the fact that never fought wonder weapons like the F7F and F8F get more requests than do the Japanese aircraft.

We absolutely need:

A6M3
B6N2
D4Y2
G4M2
Ki.43-II
Ki.61-II-Ko
Ki.84-I-Ko

B-25B or J
F6F-3
P-38F

We could really use:

B7A2
J2M3
Ki.44-I or -II
Ki.45
Ki.61-I-Ko
Ki.102-I-Otsu
N1K1
N1K1-J

B-17E or F
F4F-3
P-39
TBD Devastator

Slash27 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2003, 10:43:05 PM »

"Then why don't you USN guys ever push for Japanese aircraft along with yet another version of the F4U or other US Pacific Theatre aircraft when you request aircraft? Why do you only want American aircraft in the Pacific?"

Not a fair statement at all Karnak. Who has disagreed that we need more Japanese rides? Ive yet to see it in the CT forums anyway. You would be hard pressed to find anyone to disagree with the plane set you mentioned. BTW, didnt the F7F see limited combat. (just asking, not flaming you)

brady · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2003, 10:49:38 PM »

A realy Big help would be, other than of Course More Japanes planes, would be to provide some early war varients of the B17, like a B17C, and an Early B26, ones that were used in the New Gunie and Sollomons area. Curently some less than fully enlightened CM's have included these planes in event's aganst A6M2's this is hopless at best. What this further illustrates is an even bigger problem, we have Japanes planes for the earlest part of the pacific conflect, the allied ones they are to face off aganst are in some cases( as examplifed above) so far from what actualy their in terms of firepower preformance and offensive load and armor that they compleatly dwarf the Japanese planes, the realy porked thing is that not only do we nead more Japanes planes we nead more Allied models to face them off aganst. Paticulary in a ToD type of enviourment, heck Japanes set up's in the CT are realy dificult to do, almost imposable to do with anywhear near 100% historical accuracery. Withen a tighter nite enviourment of the ToD, I cant imagine how at present it would be posable to do, I suspect all initial theritors will be Europen based, unless they give us more planes or do as we have seen in some recent CM events be lopsided do in part to the curent plane set and a posable preception by the CM's that the public at large does not notice such things as 1944 B17's vs 1940 Zero's as an issue, or maybe they themselfs dont notice this. I am glad to hear were geting a New and Improved AH, I am bumed I have to go a whole year with only 3 new planes and 1 tank, and 3 planes mind you that did virtualy nothing to balance anything out plane set up wise, in fact in some respect they hurt things in that regard.

brady · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2003, 11:13:53 PM »

In defensi of Karnak and F4UDOA:

In general more people ask for US planes than perhaps any other type, we also have more US planes than any other country in the Game, so as a frequent BBS poster i would say that in General karnak is right, I have also sean F4UDOA, request and suport threads champining the cause for Japanese planes. I will also say this, that in the past 9months or so more and more people on both sides of the fence have come to the realazation that more Japanese planes are sorly neaded and their has been more suport for this isue than ever before.

Karnak · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2003, 11:44:14 PM »

Slash27,

As far as I know the F7Fs were on board a carrier and heading west when the nukes were dropped on Japan and Japan surrendered. I don't think they quite made it.

In regards to my other statements, I'm not saying that very many people have said that we shouldn't get more Japanese aircraft. What I have seen is a whole lot of indifference to more Japanese aircraft, and when requests are made by these players they inevitably are for USAAF and USN aircraft. If they do request Japanese aircraft they are almost always things like the Ki.27 and Ki.43. I mean we got a damn 1937 dive bomber to balance against your 1943 dive bomber and a 1938 torpedo plane to balance against your 1943 torpedo plane.

Not to flame you, but it seems to me that the fans of US aircraft have the image of the Marianas Turkey Shoot in thier minds and push for every Pacific Theatre setup to have that kind of kill ratio for the Americans. They forget about the early stages where the Japanese dominated. They forget about places like New Guinea where our P-39s and P-40s had wrested control of the air from the Japanese Ki.43s only to have Ki.61s show up and wrest it right back. It took P-38s to get air superiority in New Guinea for good. If we had the P-39, P-38F and Ki.43 every New Guinea setup would include the P-38F. We'd never play out the US having the uphill fight, only the Japanese.

I see demands that the N1K2-J (which already gets dominated) be modeled to be horribly unreliable as it was in reality, but those same players ignore the early war when it was the US equipment that was unreliable and the Japanese equipment that just kept running.

It is this persistant bias via indifference ignorance that grates on me. It is frusterating.

Puke · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2003, 12:28:06 AM »

Karnak,

I think you are making it into something it is not. It is easy for us non-historians here in the USA to make requests for USA aircraft because we are much more familiar with it. But I've not seen any rantings that we do not need any more Japanese aircraft. Ki this, A6 that, N1 this and N5 that...I don't know a Kate and Nate from a Richard, a Cecil or a Pepe-Le-Pue. But many of us are aware of the B-25 with the huge cannon in the nose and the B-29 and P-39...etc and it's easy to make comments about these when dreaming what might be next.

Batz · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2003, 12:46:55 AM »

Puke thats one of the problems.

Some guys who plan "things" dont know the differences either.

They know even less when its comes between variants of the same plane ie 109g6 vrs. 109g6/as or asm.

So they plan and you get bad plane match ups.

You get B5N2 as a counter to an SBD-5 or tbm-3

Or folks thinking they can re skin a ju88 and sub it as a Peggy.

In events and in the new AH2:ToD the wholes in the planeset get magnified and have a real effect.

The same people who call for more US planes are the same ones who demand these types of set ups.

I think the AH2:ToD will help push for a more "full" planeset. But as it stands right now HT is limited in the type of set up that can be run. Unfortunately the Pac and Ostfront suffer more then the others.