How can this be?

[JB42]

So im flying my Fw190A-5 into a57 (pizza map) at about 22k. I start to wrestle with a 20k Spit. We make a few passes and I'm delighted in the fact he hasn't opted for an HO. Low and behold a fast N1KI joins the dance. Well I know I'm no match for these two and start to "extend". Well, OK, RUN! I notice Higgens3 is on range vox so I shout out to him that I have 2 on my tail. He is kind enough to buzz them in his Me262. I manage to come around and take a pot shot at the Spit, but to no avail. No problem, I'm now headed south and have plenty of E to keep my disatnce as I go look for more inbounds.

As I pass south of a57, I pick up a lower N1KI headed for the airfield. I dive down to 14k and take a swing at him. He evades. I'm now heading North when I see the Spit thats been shadowing from our first engagement. He, on the other hand did not dive down with me. He has alt, sees me and starts to decend on me.

I quickly rollover left and put the nose down. My advantage here is gone and I know it. Just as I thought, the Spit gives chase. We are both heavy nose down and making some serious time. I'm now heading SW away from a57. As the ground start rushing up on me at a blistering pace and my red needle starts to exceed 500mph, I look behind me. The Spit is gaining. At what i think is the last possible moment I hit auto-level and go into a black out.

When I come out of the black out, I notice I'm doing a needle width above 525 and alt is 250. I figure that still being over the island, actual alt above hard pan to be about 100 feet tops. I look behind, Spit is gaining? Oooookay. I roll right and start slow turn. Look behind and Spit is cutting our corner. Ting, ting, im taking hits. I don't panic. I wait until I'm doing 475 (please note, Spit is gaining) quick roll left 180 degrees and turn left. I look back and Spit has mimicked my every move. SPIT STILL GAINING!!!

I then just hit auto-level and let him take my tail off.

I'm prepared for the Luftwhiner flames, but come on. First he should have never made it out of that dive and still had the speed to catch me. If my brief stint in physics tought me anything, that in order to catch and object on the same plane, you must be going faster. What is the compression on a Spit, 600 mph?

But to top it off, to be able to roll with a 190 at 525 and 475, now thats just plain insane.

I'm excited about the new realease of AHII TOD, but I sure hope that the info on some planes and the algorithims used to model them might be looked at a little more in depth.

[popeye]

"I hit auto-level and go into a black out"

So....yer looking for more realism in the flight model?

[AKIron]

maybe it was a jug disguised as a spit?

[Drano]

Originally posted by JB42

 If my brief stint in physics tought me anything, that in order to catch and object on the same plane, you must be going faster. What is the compression on a Spit, 600 mph?

You were both in a dive, Spit had a little height on you, you both end up on the deck, Spit catches you.

 I'm guessing that you both ended up on the deck at about the same speeds--Spit had maybe a little more let's say because of his height. Spits hold their E very well--much better in fact than the FW's. Could have been you bled E faster relative to him? Might not have been that he "got faster" but more likely you got slower, faster, relative to him. Make sense? What I know about Spits is they definitely do not slow down quickly at all. Friggin perpetual motion machines they are!

Prolly if you'd had just a bit more of a head start as you got to the deck it wouldn't have mattered as the FW's straight line speed would(should) have won the day. Thing is ya didn't here and that was prolly the difference.

        Drano

[Strange]

JB, I feel your pain.. I've run into a few of these supper spits (not Mk14) I'm still trying to figure out how they are out diving my Jug as of late....And have a spit catch me at 500.. or beter yet.. one the deck trying to out run a spit the D-11 hasn't seemed to work much as of late and the Jug is 40 mph faster then the MK9

[maxtor]

From the manuvers you described , you dumped a bunch energy, and from the sound of it you were already in a negative energy state.   Spit shouldn't catch a 190, but you have to be constantly aware of where he is.   I woulda gone for the spit first, since you can always get away from a niki?

[thrila]

Like you said jb42 you blew your E.  After you dove on the n1k did you try to to regain some E by entering a climb at all?

Anyway, the spit had alt and dove on you.  He was faster than you when you started your dive and he's gonna carry on accelerating so he's gonna catch you.  A lotta planes out dive/out run the spit but that aint gonna happen if the E states aren't close.  If you wanna outdive the spit you gotta start diving as soon as he does otherwise your better acceleration wont mean a thing.

The spit doesn't compress until it reaches very high speeds but is unmanouverable as far as rolling is concerned long before it reaches compression.

[mrsid2]

AH Spit IX is a real miracleplane in dives.

I've been caught by one in zoom while driving the 262. I was at extremely high speed to start with, noticed the spit diving after me and gaining. So I pushed the nose down and set to 'ludicrous speed.'

Spit still gaining.

I pull a full blackout zoom up, thinking the sod must be flying at least 700 and can't possibly follow. He does so with ease and actually catches me finally D1.0 on zoom and blows my 262 to smitherines with his hizookas.

I couldnt believe what just happened and I was sure the other guy was cheating. So I hopped in the IX and tried for myself. Sure enough, from 15k the spit gained extreme speed and never lost any trace of controllability. After that and another incident where 2 spits chased me (was in p51) for 10 minutes and never losing ground, I never tried to run from spits unless they were way below me.

[JB42]

Im not disputing the speed. Heck a rock can do 600 mph from 14k. My gripe is the way it still handled at those high speeds. If he didnt lawndart at 525ish then he most certainly shouldn't have been able to roll with me. As to thrilla's comment about high compression speed, that's what i'm talking about. It doesnt compress until very fast, but should.

[MANDOBLE]

If u are surprised by SpitIX perf, try spit V...

[mrsid2]

Mandoble at least the V slows down when you get it level. With IX you have to really work it to lose the E.

[Saurdaukar]

The Spit IX holds its E remarkably well.  I dont fly them much unless Im with a couple squadies who like it - Im more of a MkV kinda guy when it comes to spits - but anyway - the few times I get back into a MkIX after a long absence I cant slow the damn thing down!  
'
After flying 51s, Yaks, and MkV, the IX feels like it suffers ZERO wind resistance.

[Samiam]

If you were in a dive, hit autolevel and blacked out as a result, you burned a significant ammount of E. If the SPIT was in a shallower dive or just executed a less abrupt pull-out, he easily could have been in the better energy state and gained quickly.

In fact, the illusion of a "magic" SPIT could have been enhanced. As he initiated his more gradual pull-out before your more abrupt one, the closure rate would have slowed making you think you were better off than you really were.

[thrila]

Mrsid either you are exagerating to the extreme or just making things up.

I fly the spit IX all the time and never had it go to 700mph.  The spit IX starts to roll awful once over 400mph, when it reaches "extreme" speed (whatever speed that is) it has little or no manouverability what so ever.


I just went offline and dove from 15k in a spit & 190a5.  The film showed they were pretty much the same-  they both hit near 600mph and lawndarted.

[Frogm4n]

LUFTWHINE!