Author Topic: How can this be? (Read 1289 times)

akak · « **Reply #30 on:** February 01, 2003, 04:50:15 AM »

Two possible explainations are that it wasn't a Spitfire MkIX and was a Spitfire MkXIV, or when you hit auto-level to pull out of your high speed dive, you burned enough energy for the other guy to gain and he just used manual trim to pull him self out, avoiding any unecessary energy drain.
Remember when you hit auto-level, the plane doesn't immediately and automatically go to the neutral position but dependending on your speed, you might pitch nose up vertically first then the nose lowers to a level position. This alone will drain a significant amount of energy, especially on a plane that doesn't hold it's energy very well.

ack-ack

bozon · « **Reply #31 on:** February 01, 2003, 06:13:41 AM »

I dont know if it's supposed to be this way, but spits can hang on to a P-47 in a dive pretty well in AH.

only after crossing ~450 mph the jug starts to gain.

(no science. MA experience only)

Bozon

cpxxx · « **Reply #32 on:** February 01, 2003, 07:53:37 PM »

Daladyzmon the source is quite impeccable but I must dig out my copy of 'Sigh for a Merlin' by Alex Henshaw and Jeffrey Quill's book too. I'm sure it's mentioned there. The spit is a very clean aircraft and might well be capable of speed that no blunt nosed FW190 or Jug is capable of.

But in the spirit of practical experimentation. I took up a Spit IX yesterday morning and dived it to terminal velocity. The ASI through 480 quite easily an and pegged at approximately where 500 would have been. There was a lot of moaning and grinding and the ailerons had little effect but it pulled out easily enough with the X button or trim. I didn't go vertical though.
What speed it was doing once the the ASI went off the scale is anybody's guess. That I think would depend on the flight model as created by Hitech. Not that it matters but I wonder what account the programmers took of real life issues like compressibility and indication errors. I did notice that the TAS ran way ahead of the IAS on the dive.

At the end of the test flight I attempted to buzz a Rook field at terminal velocity just to scare them with the sight of roaring spit flashing past with locked ailerons and a blacked out pilot. But rather ignomiously ran out of fuel and parked it in the desert nearby. No doubt it's still there if anyone is interested!!!!!!!!!!!;)

Malleus · « **Reply #33 on:** February 01, 2003, 08:39:12 PM »

I like pie.

cpxxx · « **Reply #34 on:** March 01, 2003, 09:46:10 PM »

Just dug out Jeffrey Quill's book called Spitfire, oddly enough.
In it he says he was able to pull 7 to 8 g without ripping the wings off and routinely dived above the limiting speed of 470 mph. So watch out all you 262 pilots!!!!!!!! There's a spit on your tail

Chris · « **Reply #35 on:** March 01, 2003, 11:09:33 PM »

Hi all,

The the question I have is based on reading about spits and the LW planes. (I know that many here say that this is antdotal and is not to be used as the true facts.)

both British and German pilots from the BOB to the end of the war (at least before the spit 14) say German Fighters would escape from the fight by diving away. You can't escape in a dive if you can always be caught by the bad guy.

This form of escape was so common with german pilots that it caused them all kind of trouble when they started to fight the Americans. ie they could no longer dive to escape with much hope of getting away. The LW had to remember, climb aganist the U.S. iron and ok to dive aginst the British. So much for the books.

Regards,
Chris

wulfie · « **Reply #36 on:** March 01, 2003, 11:58:47 PM »

In most aircraf there is a point where increasing the angle of your dive doesn't give you an equal increase in airspeed.

Think of it this way - at -4000'/min. say the Fw 190A-5 can hit a speed of 525. At -5200'/min. that speed may be 531 or so. Number are hypothetical - I haven't done the testing.

So if you and the Spitfire IXe are both at 10,000'...if you dive too steep for too long - he's gonna get you. Because when you are on the deck and starting to slow down, he's still got 2000' of 'diving room' to boost his speed. Does that make sense?

Spitfires are very clean in terms of aerodynamics, even if they are ugle as sin.

Dive at 2000'/min., maybe 3000'/min. if you need to get out of gun range. If he's getting really close, scissor him (V or H or both) until you are both down to 250 MPH IAS or so, and *then* out dive/out accelerate him. But if you let him stay in roughly a straight line coming off of a dive, he's going to keep his speed very very well.

When conducting maneuvers in the vertical at high speed, it's very easy to lose track of your instrumentation and dive too steep, etc. Keep a close eye on the VSI and don't let it get crazy on you. Also keep a close eye on the accelerometer. A high % of AH MA pilots blow a great deal of altitude by diving too steep, as opposed to using the optimal angle of dive (in terms of acceleration).

Mike/wulfie