Originally posted by miko2d
bounder: Religion is a form of social control, however benign it is - and many religious outfits contribute way more than they consume - and that social control equates to power.
But it is more often a form of resistance to social control than otherwise. You ever wonder why despots always went after religion? It's hard to brainwash, intimidate and control people who believe there are more important things that state, more important things than immediate goal of the state, that death and suffering is preferable to compromising one's ideals, that every human got a license from no less that God to think for himself and apply morals no matter what political expediency requires.
Hard to promote nationalism and incite people to kill others when God himself tells them that all people are brothers in Christ and murder is a sin. True - there was a lot of killing between western countries - often for political reasons and despite religion, not because of it.
Hmm. I was tending towards a conciliatory tone, because I really do value the more thoughtful opinions on this BBS over the more combatitive style (which I indulge in myself from time to time).
But to keep up your spirit of robust debate...
Religion is a form of social control. It is a homogenizing influence that demands adherence to a doctrine. I'm not saying it is bad, there are many positives, but it is a form of social control.
So religion is a focus for dissent in repressive regimes? That doesn't exclude it from the the category of social controlling influence.
Religion has power, that is unarguable in my opinion.
And power tends to corrupt. So you are left with the rather irritating situation where the message is pure (the doctrine of Christ) but the medium (religion) is corruptible.
Any powed does. State political power more often than not. Since a religious person has two loyalties, tehre is less chance for him to be manipulated for evil ends.
OK so we have established that religion has power and power has the tendency to corrupt those that wield it. And the same is true for state political power. A religious person, in the Christian tradition has only
one[/u] loyalty, not two. And you know who that loyalty is to, don't you?
Personally I find it incredible that good friends of mine refute evolution in its entirety, preferring to base their knowledge on a statement of faith, accepting the genesis story as fact. They are doctors, social workers, computer programmers, every one my intellectual equal and superior.
And you think the religion is to blame rather than specifics of their mind? How many atheists made cult out of "anti-cult" objectivism of Ain Rand?
Who composes the majority of scientologists - former atheists or christians? What about Raelians? How about communism? If it's not a religion with services, dogma, saints and other crap taken on someone's word, I do not know what religion is.
Some people tend to have uncritical faith-based mindset. Whatever is around them, sticks. Better christianity than other wackiness.
religion is to blame for what? that my friends seriously believe that the earth was created 40,000 years ago, that dinosaurs were planted, that the lion lay down with the lamb and Eve preciptated the fall from grace. Hell, I don't know, but someone sure is. And I bet they were religious too
Scientologists, Ayn Rand and Raelians have nothing to do with it.
I wasn't saying they were stupid or anything; they are equally incredulous at my beliefs. I'm not saying who's right. That will be established when I die. I am saying that I distrust any organisation that claims to mediate my relationship with God.
Niccolo Machievelli was astute in his observation that when taking over a foreign city state, you should always let the conquered people keep their religion, and even go so far as to co-opt it.
Your parallel with State political control earlier is very apt, religion has a very deeply embedded and anachronistic relationship with the state (in the UK, bishops get seats in House of Lords without being elected). Organised Religion is yet another man made structure for control over others, exploiting spiritual and existential needs in order to coordinate desireable behaviour.
But that's a load of chest thumping. Live and let live. I love my creationist friends deeply and can coexst happily with them (with the odd bout of utter mutual contempt!). So take it easy
