Author Topic: Why the US should tell the UN to get stuffed (Read 1682 times)

straffo · « **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2003, 09:00:41 AM »

You missed the whole point

Quote

Originally posted by straffo

And as we don't have the right to disagree with you

Why should have we authorized over fly our soil ?

Only to please the US ?

Sorry but I don't expect my governement to rick life of some citizen only to please another country .
Even a friendly one can french Air Force operate freely on US soil ?

Answer (obvious) : NO

It's called sovereignty you asked we answered : NO

And btw we don't fear USA otherwise we will bellybutton lick the US like some other Yuropean country.

bounder · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2003, 11:04:11 AM »

Ok Habu,

USA is the greatest nation on earth

Everyone must agree with it, because the most powerful nation on earth cannot be wrong.

Everyone must support it with military materiel because the greatest nation on earth cannot be wrong.

The UN must be bad because the USA disagrees with it.

The USA has the right to invade sovereign territory all over the world for whatever reason.

The USA never makes mistakes.

Would that be a fair representation of your understanding of international relations, or would you care to fill us in a bit further.

Rude · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2003, 11:18:14 AM »

If ya don't like the US or it's policies, that's cool. We don't do everything right.

I'de rather have just a few REAL allies than 50 suckin our hind titty and takin our money.

UN.....what a corrupt, ineffective and useless body of work.

lord dolf vader · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2003, 11:43:01 AM »

yea if we (conservatives) dont agree with them (whoever it is this week) they ( insert u.n.) must be the bad guys rush told me so.

sigh

im an american (vet also) and i think the un is right this time. goin lawless rouge state is not the way for our counry to go now or ever. no matter what chimp says.

p.s.

please please dont think even most americans are like these guys. the conservatives here go nuts when they smell blood, standard false partiotic buffoonery mostly but well intentioned if you can imagin the concept, you guys don't have this in your countrys?

Rude · « **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2003, 11:54:10 AM »

So let me get this straight towd....the US is the lawless rogue state and not Iraq?

You are in support of a body of nations without the will nor the teeth to enforce the 17 passed resolutions which have been violated by Iraq?

You believe we should submit to the UN when it is not in OUR countries national interest?

Germany and France are true allies of the US?

No pissin match pls....just direct and honest answers?

Habu · « **Reply #20 on:** February 03, 2003, 11:58:06 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lord dolf vader
yea if we (conservatives) dont agree with them (whoever it is this week) they ( insert u.n.) must be the bad guys rush told me so.

sigh

im an american (vet also) and i think the un is right this time. goin lawless rouge state is not the way for our counry to go now or ever. no matter what chimp says.

p.s.

please please dont think even most americans are like these guys. the conservatives here go nuts when they smell blood, standard false partiotic buffoonery mostly but well intentioned if you can imagin the concept, you guys don't have this in your countrys?

You seem to miss the point of my post entirely. When the US puts it's faith in the UN who exactly is it putting its faith in? A group of honest and moral governments who vote for what is right for the world? NO It is a collection of dictatorships, corrupt third world African banana republics and human rights abusers. That is the point. The US should base its decisions on what is best for the US, what is best for NATO, what is best for the west, what is best for the rest of the world and finally what is in the UN's interests. In that order.

Regarding what the euro-weenies like France and Germany do. I think I will make a new thread explaining to our european friends why they are constantly undermineing the US on the Iraq issue. Since not one of them seems to realize why they are doing it.

lord dolf vader · « **Reply #21 on:** February 03, 2003, 12:22:38 PM »

Im pretty shure i understand what you mean. but as long and we dont have a public reason to invade iraq (like he has nukes having the chem weapons we sold him wont do in my mind)

othewise the whole thing is folly.

Dowding · « **Reply #22 on:** February 03, 2003, 01:13:31 PM »

Quote

I think I will make a new thread explaining to our european friends why they are constantly undermineing the US on the Iraq issue. Since not one of them seems to realize why they are doing it.

Oh please condescend to do so! We are not worthy to reach our own conclusions in defiance of US opinion! Save us from ourselves and our unenlightened opinions! In the name of all things holy do it quickly!

That's a particularly insulting attitude, Habu, and might go a long way to explain why many Americans are tarred with the particular brush of arrogance. I hope you can see that.

I think Bounder had a good handle on your view of the world - one which you haven't actually rebutted.

Saurdaukar · « **Reply #23 on:** February 03, 2003, 01:24:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lord dolf vader
Im pretty shure i understand what you mean. but as long and we dont have a public reason to invade iraq (like he has nukes having the chem weapons we sold him wont do in my mind)

othewise the whole thing is folly.

1. I have yet to see any documentation or OFFICIAL accusation that the US sold chem weaps to Iraq. The US (and many other European states) sold equiptment that could have been used for research purposes - the Iraqi's instead decieded that chemical and biological agents were of more value. When the US found out what these supplies were being used for - shipments stopped.

2. I think the issue here is not whether or not Saddam has a chemical/biological weapons store - its obvious he did/does/will - the issue here is that Iraq was obliged by the United Nations to unveil all chemical/nuclear/biological weapons and disarm. Not only is he not cooperating with inspectors, but he is not disarming. The UN is not enforcing this - somehow the US is getting a bad rap for following through on the UN's resolution. If the UN does not enforce their own resolutions - what good is the body?

SirLoin · « **Reply #24 on:** February 03, 2003, 01:27:51 PM »

Who needs the UN?

Dowding · « **Reply #25 on:** February 03, 2003, 01:35:01 PM »

Quote

1. I have yet to see any documentation or OFFICIAL accusation that the US sold chem weaps to Iraq. The US (and many other European states) sold equiptment that could have been used for research purposes - the Iraqi's instead decieded that chemical and biological agents were of more value. When the US found out what these supplies were being used for - shipments stopped.

I think it's naive to think the West, including the US, was selling these 'dual purpose' technologies to Iraq for innocent purposes given the daily use of chemical weapons, by Iraq, against Iran. Here's some Senate proceedings. They are long, but quite interesting:

How Saddam Happened

Habu · « **Reply #26 on:** February 03, 2003, 01:36:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding
Oh please condescend to do so! We are not worthy to reach our own conclusions in defiance of US opinion! Save us from ourselves and our unenlightened opinions! In the name of all things holy do it quickly!

That's a particularly insulting attitude, Habu, and might go a long way to explain why many Americans are tarred with the particular brush of arrogance. I hope you can see that.

I think Bounder had a good handle on your view of the world - one which you haven't actually rebutted.

I am not an American. I support them in this case because Saddam is a mad man and he should not be allowed the latitude to endanger the whole world with his madness. He has tried to have the President of the US assinated. What better proof of his He has the money and expertise to develop weapons of mass destruction and he has the track record to actually give them to terrorists.

Bounders post is infantile. Not worth a reply.

France and Germany's position on the Iraq issue have nothing to do with the facts of the situation and everything to do with their domestic politics in the case of Germany and the attempt to try and appear important by defying the US in the case of France. France has a long history of doing this.

Dowding · « **Reply #27 on:** February 03, 2003, 01:38:50 PM »

You're stating the obvious - of course they are bowing to public opinion, whereas Britain and Spain et al are flying in the face of it.

10Bears · « **Reply #28 on:** February 03, 2003, 01:45:03 PM »

Sorry Euros, my countrymen suffer from AIG..

Arrogance Ignorance and Greed deadly combination that

Arrogance = We don’t need no stinkin’ international law.. The law is whatever we say it is cuz we got the biggest and the baddest army in history. Whadda ya gonna do bout it!?

Ignorance = See Habu’s and Rude’s post above... Keep in mind only 17% of Americans polled knew none of the hijackers were Iraqis.

Greed = Two dogs that share the same dogfood bowl, the bigger dog will eat all the dogfood even though it will throw up just to deny the smaller dog any food.

Habu, I wonder if the good people of South Korea would agree with you.

Habu · « **Reply #29 on:** February 03, 2003, 01:51:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding
You're stating the obvious - of course they are bowing to public opinion, whereas Britain and Spain et al are flying in the face of it.

Sometimes governments have to make decisions that may not be popular at home but are the right thing to do. That is the true test of any government. Should a people ignore tyranny and evil just because it will not affect them personally? Would it have been right for other countries to ignore the death camps in WW2 because it was not their citizens being exterminated?

Why did Canada fight in WW2? It was never attacked. It probably would not have been greatly affected it Germany won the war. It lost tens of thousands of men and millions and millions of dollars fighting because it was the right thing to do.

Countries that refused to stand up and support the fight deserve to be ignored in the aftermath. It is not only cowardly but immoral as well. And if they are unwilling to join the fight they should at least have the moral courage to not oppose it for reasons of domestic political gain.