Why Germany is not supporting the US policy on Iraq.

[Habu]

Lets look closely at recent events in Germany.

Gerhard Schroeder won re-election last fall in a very close election by repudiating the American position on Iraq. It made him enormously popular at home, appealing to the inherent distaste the Germany population has for war, regardless of whether it is for a just reason or not.

The German economy is now on the verge of a double-dip recession, and his party the Social Democrats are expected to lose crucial upcoming state elections in Lower Saxony and Hesse.

Not surprisingly then Schroeder has decided to rachet up his anti war/anti US rhetoric by announcing to a European conference in a speech "I have told, in particular, our French friends, but others as well, and I am going a step further in what I say here and now, .... Do not reckon with Germany approving a resolution authorizing war. Do not reckon with that."

He is trying to deflect attention away from this domestic problems and increase his party's popularity. It worked last year and he expects it to work again. Unfortunately it will be at the expense of good US German relations. The damage and fallout with the US from his quest for short term political gain may come back to haunt him for a long time.

[miko2d]

OK, germans use hostility to US as distraction from their domestic problems.

 According to them - and plenty of americans - US uses hostility to Iraq as a distraction from our domestic problems too.

 miko

[GtoRA2]

Hey was he in the Hitler Youth?

 I thought I heard that somewhere?

 Just curious if it was true.

[Teforto]

No, Schoeder was born in 1944, he was definitly too young to join in the Hitler Youth.

[Maverick]

His stand on America is fine. He is welcome to it. As long as he remembers that his own economy, good or bad, is because Americans cared enough to help rebuild their country.

As for me, I don't feel a need to buy ANY German products and likely won't for some time. Yes I do own a small ticket German product now but won't replace it. It's paid for so anything I have now won't go to support this idiot.

Final note. Just guess who he would come to for aid if there was some natural disaster in his country. No doubt he would squeak about American aid then too.

[Dowding]

Why do some Americans seem fascinated by how much aid they give around the world? As a proportion of GDP, they are 22nd in the world. That's nothing to boast about.

60 years ago the US committed itself to a great deed - the Marshall plan. But it was in American interests to have a strong barrier against the USSR, and I'm sure there has been a fair amount of money made in trade in the mean time.

I also doubt that the originators of the plan would have like Americans 60 years later to laud it over the receivers, should they disagree with American foreign policy. Either it was altruistic and designed to forge a strong democratic, independent nation state and partner or it was a cynical ploy to make sure American interests were always looked after on the continent. I like to believe the former.

[Habu]

Originally posted by miko2d
OK, germans use hostility to US as distraction from their domestic problems.

 According to them - and plenty of americans - US uses hostility to Iraq as a distraction from our domestic problems too.

 miko

I will believe that when you show me what election GWB is currently trying to win...............

The Republicans control politics in the US right now. They do not have to appease anyone. They are doing what they feel is right for the country and the world.

[Eagler]

look at the level of trade both france and germany has with iraq

that will answer your questions concerning their hesitation about going to war ...............

[CptTrips]

Why do some Americans seem fascinated by how much aid they give around the world? As a proportion of GDP, they are 22nd in the world. That's nothing to boast about.

Well, I tell you what.  Since most of the countries we gave all that money to (Marshal Plan) are now economic powerhouses (thanks to us),  why don't we just add up the total plus standard interest rate, an you pay it back?  In real cash please, none of that euro-monopoly money.

Any man who had half an ounce of self respect would be eager to pack back any one who loaned him money when he was down on his luck as soon as he was flush again.

Of course there is the other kind of man.  The one who secretly resents the lender because it only reminds them of their own weakness and bad mouths them any chance they get.  They try their best to forget they were ever given the money and get all irritated when someone mentions it.


Wab

[Dowding]

There's nothing in your post that isn't answered by the last two paragraphs of my last reply. I suggest you read them again, if you read them at all.

To suggest that the Marshall plan be used as leverage against the sovereignty of national policy is ridiculous.

"We saved your tulips and you shall not disagree, you shall kneel!"

[CptTrips]

^^^   Q.E.D.

[Dowding]

^^^ Q.E.D.

[CptTrips]

To suggest that the Marshall plan be used as leverage against the sovereignty of national policy is ridiculous.

Couldn't care less about your sovereignty, just pay back the money.

But you're the type of little man I was speaking of.

You're all full of excuses on why you shouldn't have to pay back the money, secretly resent the people who helped you out because it only underscores your own weakness, and get quite annoyed any time the subject is even brought up.

Q.E.D.

Wab

[CptTrips]

^^^  Q.E.D.   Another example.

 An another one for the ignore list.


Wab

[Toad]

than money.



Nonetheless there is another aspect to consider.

As an aside, it should be emphasized that the above figures are comparing government spending. Such spending has been agreed at international level and is spread over a number of priorities. Individual/private donations may be targeted in many ways.

However, even though the charts above do show U.S. aid to be poor (in percentage terms) compared to the rest, the generosity of the people of America is far more impressive than their government.

As discussed further below, the government spending has tied agendas that has often been detrimental to the recipient. Private aid/donation in contrast has been through charity on individual people and organizations though this of course can be weighted to certain interests and areas.

Nonetheless, it is interesting to note for example, per latest estimates, Americans privately give at least $34 billion overseas -- more than three times U.S. official foreign aid of $10 billion:

International giving by U.S. foundations totals $1.5 billion per year

Charitable giving by U.S. businesses now comes to at least $2.8 billion annually

American NGOs gave over $6.6 billion in grants, goods and volunteers.

Religious overseas ministries contribute $3.4 billion, including health care, literacy training, relief and development.

$1.3 billion by U.S. colleges are given in scholarships to foreign students

Personal remittances from the U.S. to developing countries came to $18 billion in 2000

Source: Dr. Carol Aderman, Aid and Comfort, Tech Central Station, 21 August 2002. (Aderman admits that there are no complete figures for international private giving. Hence these numbers may be taken in caution, but even with caution, these are high numbers.)

Ok, in the poker idiom, I'll review my governments $ total aid, see your raise, bump the foreign aid pot 3X for private giving and call.