Author Topic: The Stop Gap Japanese Plane set solution (Read 2043 times)

Frogm4n · « **Reply #31 on:** February 07, 2003, 09:09:26 PM »

well if it outperforms a p51 and f4u1d( like the f4u4 does) why wouldnt it be perked.

Karnak · « **Reply #32 on:** February 07, 2003, 09:24:52 PM »

Frogm4n,

It outperformed the P-51 when using the high octane fuel used by the Americans and British. In AH it would be using Japanese fuel which was much poorer. That was to one place J_A_B was wrong. AH does model the poor Japanese fuel.

With American fuel the Ki.84 had a top speed of about 430mph, with Japanese fuel it had a top speed of about 400mph.

On the deck it should do about 350-360mph. It will dominate the F6F-5, but the F4U should be a good match.

Also, the Japanese built 3,514 of them. It was a very common Japanese fighter.

J_A_B · « **Reply #33 on:** February 07, 2003, 10:30:04 PM »

"AH does model the poor Japanese fuel. "

Depends on which plane. The N1K2 is modeled with the bad gas; the Ki-61 is not (Ki-61 lost about 20 MPH wien it switched to lower quality gas, from upper 360's to upper 340's). I don't know about the Zekes.

J_A_B

Sachs · « **Reply #34 on:** February 07, 2003, 11:54:12 PM »

I remember reading about the Japanese goin in with inferior number s and shooting down I think 12 US aircraft. Not sure if Sakai was there. BUt I believe it was KI-84's that just put a whoppin on those US planes.

Karnak · « **Reply #35 on:** February 08, 2003, 02:13:22 AM »

J_A_B,

You do seem to be correct about the Ki.61-I. The top speed I have listed for it is 348mph.

Sachs,

If it was Ki.84s Sakai would not have been there as he was in the IJN and the Ki.84 was an IJA aircraft.

Sachs · « **Reply #36 on:** February 08, 2003, 11:07:52 AM »

Yeah your right Karnak I will have to go dig through my books to find it.

Rasker · « **Reply #37 on:** February 09, 2003, 11:41:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sachs
I remember reading about the Japanese goin in with inferior number s and shooting down I think 12 US aircraft. Not sure if Sakai was there. BUt I believe it was KI-84's that just put a whoppin on those US planes.

I recall reading about some Ki-84's shooting down a dozen F6F's over Okinawa during the fighting there. I also recall a test pilot in a N1K2 being attacked by 12 F6f's near the home islands, shooting down 4 of them, and the others lit out for home.

Shuckins · « **Reply #38 on:** February 10, 2003, 06:01:13 PM »

Such shootdowns of American aircraft by Japanese pilots late in the war were a rarety. Total Hellcat losses to enemy action were less than 300 during the two years that the F6F was committed to combat. Japanese pilots were known to "cook the books" a little when claiming victories. I find it a little difficult to believe that a single pilot could take on six sections, 12 aircraft, flown by well-trained pilots and shoot down four of them and still live to tell about it. Even Saburo Sakai admits that some of his compatriots were prone to boast wildly about the number of kills that they had achieved.

With the large numbers of U.S. aircraft present in the Pacific, the Japanese aces certainly had the opportunity to run up high scores, but not if they flew stupidly. Eric Hartmann did not run up his talley of 352 kills by engaging multiple bogies simultaneously. It was a sure way to commit suicide.

Regards, Shuckins

Karnak · « **Reply #39 on:** February 10, 2003, 06:34:52 PM »

Shuckins,

Enough of this.

Just go and read the US test reports on the Ki.84 if you don't believe us.

brady · « **Reply #40 on:** February 10, 2003, 07:39:32 PM »

Kill over claiming was a problem on all sides, I think if memory serves only the Germans were truley anal about it to the point that their claims are never realy disputed,In fact in the case of Hartman it is generaly held true that he got more than 352, but could only prove to the satisfaction of the German system that he had 352. I have seen(I wish I had all my books hear) referances for a number of late war engagements between Japanese and American fighters off Japan whear both sides clearly overclaimed.

As Karnak hinted at, the debate over kills claimed realy has no bearing on the bases issue of this post, it is a side topic.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #41 on:** February 10, 2003, 08:37:39 PM »

Brady,

According to the book "Luffwaffe JG52 War diarys" during the BoB the Germans and Goering kept over estimating the number of airiel kills to the point of the German intelligence believing that the Brits were always down to there last onehundred A/C. The book mentions that Goering punished his fighter pilots by forcing them to fly tight cover for the bombers and not letting them go after the fighters.

So I guess it was the same everywhere.

Shuckins · « **Reply #42 on:** February 10, 2003, 09:55:07 PM »

If the Ki-84 is brought to AH, as it SHOULD be, then HiTech should model it the way it actually performed FOR THE JAPANESE DURING THE WAR, with 100 octane fuel, not the 150 octane that became available AFTER Japan capitulated. The Frank was in WarBirds and I believe it was modelled that way, but I don't know for sure.

If we want HiTech to model all the might-have-beens then AH will lose all realism. If we're going to go down that path, then let's bring in the Bearcat, XF6F-6, F-80, Sea Fury, Tigercat, and a host of others that almost made it into combat.

Friendly regards, Shuckins

brady · « **Reply #43 on:** February 10, 2003, 10:28:36 PM »

F4UDOA, the operative phrase was "if Memorie servies"

, I am shure your right, it was the same prety much every whear.

Shuckins, I am shure they will model the way it did preform during the war, and by all acounts it did prety good even with the toejamy gas.

Karnak · « **Reply #44 on:** February 10, 2003, 11:21:05 PM »

Shuckins,

The people asking for the Ki.84 expect it to be modeled with 88 octane fuel like the Japanese were using, not like the 100 octane the US tested it with. It was never flown with 150 octane fuel.

You should know that the Ki.84, using Japanese fuel, still massively out performs the F6F-5. With 88 octane fuel I expect that the Ki.84 will have a deck speed of 350 to 360mph and a top speed of 390 to 400mph at about 20,000ft. The initial climb rate of the Ki.84 will be about 3,500ft per minute.

Those numbers are all better than the F6F-5's.