Another @%$^& "PERK THIS" thread

[Innominate]

Originally posted by DoctorYO

F4u4 doesn't suffer like the other F4's in the vert... (it can get out of its own way unlike the other f4's)  with its flaps it can easily out turn the LA7..  Throw in tricks below 300mph like brakes and gear deployment and a rudder from hell and the LA7 has it hands full... (it can run... thats about it...)

What the hell f4u4 are you flying?

The f4u4 has an acceptable climb rate, but still is not able to out-climb most planes.
At sea level it's about 3700, a few thousand feet up it drops off sharply, and is little better than the p51 or spit9.  It's climb rate is workable, but nothing special.

At low speed in the f4u4, having the nose pointed up is dangerous.  The plane has engine torque which seems to be second only to the spit14.  (Why do some of these planes like the f4u4, spit14, etc seem to have INCREDIBLE prop torque, while others like the spit9, n1k2, and p51d have virtually none?  Is it just the age of the flight model?)

For fighting in the vertical, the p51 is a far better aircraft.

Anyways against an la7, the f4u4 has ONE thing it can beat the la7 with.  It cant outclimb, or run away(unless it has an e-advantage)  It can get slow.  It can drop it's flaps all the way and turn, and if the la7 tries to follow, it will lose.
Or if the la7 is smart, he'll level out, accellerate a bit, and now have complete control over the fight against a plane with barely enough energy to maneuver.  Sure you can use a number of tricks(The gear brakes are a good one) to delay it, but every time you do you commit yourself to eventually getting killed, while also making yourself an EASY target to anyone else in the area, who by now has latched onto your perk tags and is desperatly trying to steal the kill.

[guttboy]

INCREDIBLE prop torque, while others like the spit9, n1k2, and p51d have virtually none? Is it just the age of the flight model?)

The F4 is extremely High on P Factor/Torque.  The reason the Wings were bent is because of the size of the prop.  Nicknamed the Ensign Killer...spelling sucks sorry...due to that fact.

P51 has good torque and pfactor but no where near the F4 models.

And I agree put me up on an F4 any day in the LA7...will be a good fight.

[TheManx]

You yourself tossed away 2 spit 14's just recently, not realizing what you were flying..

I agree Skurj, but the same could be said about other planes like the F4U's that remain similar to their unperked counterparts. But you did bring up a good point in that you need to fly perk planes very carefully in order to survive in similar environments as other planes.

My statement was to say the Spit XIV for some reason isn't any more of a threat in the arena than some of the better unperked fighters. It dosen't matter whether it's the perk tag, or performance loss....it's visibility in the MA and it's statistics just don't warrant a high perking like it's got.

[Don]

Screw it, perk EVERYTHING!:D

Log on= 2 perk points (it'll cost ya to get yer arse full o' lead)

Use of vox= 4 perkies (those annoying conversations that clog the radio's will cost ya)

CH1 banter= 10 perkies (it'll cost ya to spew yer personal political views so everyone can hear)

Bailing out= 5 perkies (screw you dweeb, walk home and pay for the priviledge)

Augering= 7 perkies (you'll pay fer ruining a perfectly good airplane!)

Rearm pad useage= 9 perkies (you'll pay ya lazy twit fer not checking in at the control tower!)

[ccvi]

Originally posted by guttboy
The F4 is extremely High on P Factor/Torque.  The reason the Wings were bent is because of the size of the prop.  Nicknamed the Ensign Killer...spelling sucks sorry...due to that fact.

P51 has good torque and pfactor but no where near the F4 models.

And I agree put me up on an F4 any day in the LA7...will be a good fight.

P-Factor requires an angle between axis of rotation of the prop and velocity of the aircraft. This angle is usually very close to zero - therefore the forces due to P-factor are almost zero. Taking into account that they're even small at relatively large angles, they're unnoticable (except maybe on helicoptering Spit5s and Nikis )

What you're looking for is helix shaped prop wash hitting the vertical stabilizer (f4us large props let's lot of air rotate and the vstab isn't small either - that's why it's so big there).

IIRC the Ensign Killer was the -1 (without the stall plate, that later was fitted).

[Terror]

P-Factor is where the descending blade takes a "bigger bite" of air than the ascending blade.  This is directly related to angle of attack, which at lower speeds and/or high G is high.  This is would be a factor in the "torque" feel of a plane during heavy manuevering.  (Also a contributor to the "snap" into a stall.)

The other 3 turning factors are:  Torque, Slipstream, and Gyroscopic Precession.

Need to start a new thread if ya all wanna know about this stuff.

I still say lightly perking the P51d, La7, N1K2-J, and SpitIX would be a good thing for the MA.  And lowering the F4u4's perk cost 20 or so points would be good also.

Terror

[J_A_B]

There is good variety in the MA currently.  Why screw it up?


J_A_B

[Terror]

Originally posted by J_A_B
There is good variety in the MA currently.  Why screw it up?


J_A_B

Out of 65 planes, these planes have 40+% of all kills in the MA.  Doesn't look like variety to me!!  I would expect 10-13 planes to make up that percentage of kills, not just four.

Terror

[bockko]

currently, these 4 have 20% of all kills, with an overall k/d ratio of 1.02:1, hardly an unbalancing #. There has to be a perk "line" somewhere, if we start perking fighters that actually flew in large #'s late in the war, then we will see bunches of the best fighters that flew early in the war. I don't believe it is wise to mess with the perkie system unless something gets way out of whack...but HT could perk all gv's!

bockk

[Terror]

Originally posted by bockko
currently, these 4 have 20% of all kills, with an overall k/d ratio of 1.02:1, hardly an unbalancing #. There has to be a perk "line" somewhere, if we start perking fighters that actually flew in large #'s late in the war, then we will see bunches of the best fighters that flew early in the war. I don't believe it is wise to mess with the perkie system unless something gets way out of whack...but HT could perk all gv's!

bockk

So in the first 9 days of the tour, these planes having 20% of the kills does not seem like a lack of variety?  So you are saying that 6% of the plane set should have 20-50% of the overall kill total?  Doesn't that seems a little off to anyone else??!!

Terror

[J_A_B]

I guess you don't remember the days in other games when 2 planes would account for 70% of total usage.

AH has the most variety of any flightsim I've yet played.  Eventually, with restrictions like perks, you move beyond "variety" and just start to piss people off, especially when we're talking about famous, popular aircraft like Spit 9's and P-51D's.   Some of the perked AH aircraft, like the Ta-152, are already "questionable"....hence justifying even more perkage is IMO difficult.


J_A_B

[OIO]

LA7, spit9 and N1k are good candidates for light perking.

These are the only rides in AH that can B&Z and T&B with almost every other plane and do it damn well. Most of the times they do both at once.. like the n1k, the Turn & Zoom wonder.

Also the fact that it takes very little skill to actually fly these things succesfully (read: get kills, rtb not required) makes them an even better choice for the quake crowds.

The CHOG is a perfect example of such a plane. When it was THE king of the entire arena it was before its FM fix (it was too light).. easy to fly as incredibly well armed. It gets perked lightly and voila! Balance returns to the arena and has been kept out of the hands of the quake hordes ever since.

Yet you look up at the sky now... and its La7's, N1ks and spits being 90% of what you WILL encounter out there, every sortie, guaranteed.

Other planes are "faster" or "turn better" or are "better armed".. but none other is "faster" "turns better" AND is "better armed" than the huge majority of the damned planeset all in one. And this is precisely why the LA7, N1k and Spit9 shine so much & get abused so much.

So yeah, PERK THEM.

2 perks each. Cheap as hell, lets see if the quake hordes can keep upping them if they dont RTB them.

[thrila]

If u perked the spitIX, la7, p51D, n1k2 you'll probably have fewer planes making up 20% of the kills.  The spitIX and n1k2 crowd would fly the spitV and then p51 and la7 crowd would fly the tiffie (yes the d9 usage would up but not as much as the tiffie).

So instead of a big 4 we would then have a big 2- which would be even worse.  If you want to see more variety instead of restricting planes it may be better to release some of the perk planes.  If the spitXIV, f4u4 and ta152 were unperked I really wouldn't mind personally- it could even smooth out the big 4.  Although the sky would probably be full of them for a couple of days it'll probably settle down after that.  All 3 of these have various aircraft that are faster than them at typical MA alts.  There isn't a huge LW crowd to begin with and it's unlikely that all of them will fly the ta152- i can't see it being unbalancing.  There are a lot of guys that fly spits but if they think it'll be a fast spitIX they'll be mistaken-  the torque will put a lot of the TnBers off.  The f4u4 isn't exactly uber either, although fast on the deck a lot of the late war birds will run it down between 5-15k.  It too has it's fair share of torque.



Also my fave ride is the spit IX, so nooooooooo don't perk it.

[Terror]

Originally posted by J_A_B
I guess you don't remember the days in other games when 2 planes would account for 70% of total usage.

AH has the most variety of any flightsim I've yet played.  Eventually, with restrictions like perks, you move beyond "variety" and just start to piss people off, especially when we're talking about famous, popular aircraft like Spit 9's and P-51D's.   Some of the perked AH aircraft, like the Ta-152, are already "questionable"....hence justifying even more perkage is IMO difficult.

J_A_B

Is 3-5 perkies for these rides really that unaffordable?  I really don't understand the resistance to a very light perk on these planes.  

I also don't agree with the N1K driver going to the SpitV.  It's too slow.  And the P51d and the La7 going to the TYPH?  I doubt it, because the TYPH does not have the turn capability of either of these planes.  If they did migrate to them, they would just die more often....

And remember you don't loose the perks, unless you loose the plane....

Terror

[thrila]

Terror if you perk a ride people move to the next best thing.  Remove the spitIX and n1k people will flock to the spitV- the SpitV already has quite a large usage already.  The SpitV would basically have SpitV + SpitIX + n1k kills altogether- it would more than double the amount of kills #2 spot would have.  You think people who fly the n1k wont fly the Spit?  People fly the n1k for it's turning and it's cannons not for it's speed, the closest plane to the n1k is the spitV.

It's the same for p51 and the la7- the closet plane performance wise is the tiffie.  People don't fly the p51 and la7 for their turning ability so the tiffies turning ability doesn't really come into the equation (even though it's turning is about average anyway).


Even if you lightly perk the 4 main rides at 5 perks each you'll affect the majority of the game.  I have 1000's of perks but the majority of people don't.  The majority of people struggle to maintain a 1:1 so assuming they get .5 perks for every kill (they die for every kill so perks awarded are halved) it'll take people on average 10 flights to get to fly a cheap perk ride.  Thats quite an impact.

I stand by my previous statement.  If you perk the big 4 you'll only end up with a big 2.