Powells speech so far...

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Steve, Boroda's responses are directly porprotional to the amount of vodka he's had and who's with him at the internet cafe when hes posting.

He's actually pretty competent when yah get him on a keyboard by himself.. when he posts 'in committie' he's a freakin hysterical Ensign Chekov.

I usually browse this BBS when at work. Never been to any internet cafe.

And I usually drink beer here not vodka. Vodka requires serious food and company.

I didn't see the old Startreck series, for me Checkov is only a character from old OS/360 game.

I get "hysterical" when I face animal anticommunism, and blind hatred towards my country and it's history. Katyn is one of the examples of how West adopted Goebbels's inventions and how our new-fangled "democrats" agreed with nazi propaganda and obvious fakes made in the 50s. Believe me, it's absolutely obvious that "documents" that Toad shows here have absolutely different meaning from what he says. You just have to understand Cyrillic.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Toad
How typical to attack the man as a drunk while sidestepping the issue of undoubtable Russian guilt for Katyn.

There is LOTS of evidence and it all shows the Russians as mass murderers of Polish prisoners of a war that was launched against them by Russia despite numerous Polish treaties and alliances with Russia.

I'm sure you are proud.

So you say USSR attacked Poland, not Hitler?!

That's great. I'm sure next time you'll say that we killed Kennedy and Lincoln.

Almost anything Stalin did since late-30s was a matter of survival for the whole nation. If he didn't get Eastern Poland - then in 1941 nazis could probably take Moscow and go further to their Archangelsk-Astrakhan' line.

Speaking about Yeltsin, most of his actions since 1993 can't be explained using common sence.

[CptTrips]

Boroda,

Don't want to set you off on another rant, I'm just trying to make sure I understand your position.

I'm not interested in the reasons, justifications, context etc.  I'm just trying to clarify a factual point.

Yes or no please.  Did the Russains kill the Polish officers at Katyn?  Yes or no please.  


Regards,
Wab

[Hortlund]

Boroda, what about Beavers book on Berlin?

Yes or no, did the Soviet army commit criminal acts of murder, rape, torture and plunder against German civilians in 1945?

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Boroda

Speaking about Yeltsin, most of his actions since 1993 can't be explained using common sence.

Well, he did select Putin, and that is one of the best leaders (propbably the best) you have had since Chrustjev.

[Dowding]

Of course they did, Hortlund. In the same way that Germans commited criminal acts of murder, rape, torture and plunder against Russian civilians from 1941 onwards.

Neither of them held a monopoly on barbarity.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by AKWabbit
Boroda,

Don't want to set you off on another rant, I'm just trying to make sure I understand your position.

I'm not interested in the reasons, justifications, context etc.  I'm just trying to clarify a factual point.

Yes or no please.  Did the Russains kill the Polish officers at Katyn?  Yes or no please.  


Regards,
Wab

I don't know.

I don't want to believe either nazi propaganda of obviously  "edited" communist version. All I want to do here is to show Toad that the nazi version he so strongly supports is a roadkill, and a pretty obvious lie.

Frankly speaking I WANT to believe that Katyn' is nazis work. I hope you understand why.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Boroda, what about Beavers book on Berlin?

Yes or no, did the Soviet army commit criminal acts of murder, rape, torture and plunder against German civilians in 1945?

Hortlund, I kindly advise you to put that book on a shelf with Mein Kampf and other nazi/cold war propaganda crap.

Something must be wrong with my English. Soviet soldiers were not angels, but the "data" Beaver gives is a nonsence. 100000 rapes in Berlin confirmed by some mysterious "doctors", in a city where any medical aid was provided only by Soviet field hospitals.

The main difference between nazis and Soviet Army was that rapes, tortures and plunder were not an official policy, and were severely punished, while nazis officially stated that any crime against civilian population will NOT be prosecuted. I gave you documents.

[Hortlund]

Actually I think it was 2 000 000 rapes performed by soviet soldiers from the first time they set foot on German soil in 44-something to the end of the war (stretching a bit past that date too).

Ok, have you read the book "Stalins Revenge" about the battle for Eastern Prussia in 45? Propaganda too? Were there any occations of rape, plunder, murder, torture of German citizens, or is that all propaganda?

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Dowding
Of course they did, Hortlund. In the same way that Germans commited criminal acts of murder, rape, torture and plunder against Russian civilians from 1941 onwards.

Neither of them held a monopoly on barbarity.

Neither US, British, Japanese, Italian, or any othes do.

The case is that nazis held a monopoly on planned elimination of whole nations and ethnic groups, and total demolition as official programm.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Actually I think it was 2 000 000 rapes performed by soviet soldiers from the first time they set foot on German soil in 44-something to the end of the war (stretching a bit past that date too).

This means that almost every Soviet soldier was a rapist and could have been executed by military authority? I can hardly believe this.

Originally posted by Hortlund
O`k, have you read the book "Stalins Revenge" about the battle for Eastern Prussia in 45? Propaganda too? [/B]

The title speaks for itself. To the same book shelf with the rest.

Koeningsberg battle was a bloodbath My Grand Uncle died there... He was 17.

[Hortlund]

No, 2 000 000 rapes is not the same thing as 2 000 000 victims or 2 000 000 perps.

I have read dozens of accounts of German women being raped for hours and hours by entire platoons of drunken russian soldiers. I have read hundreds of accounts of German civilians being shot, tortured, raped.

Your grand uncle was killed in Köningsberg? Im sorry to hear that.

My Grandfather lost his entire family fleeing from East Prussia to Germany in 45. Grandfathers two brothers (aged 7 and 14), two sisters (aged 16 and 20), his mom and dad and uncle and uncles family. Raped, tortured, murdered. By "someone unknown" then, since it wasnt any soviet soldiers...

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Hortlund
My Grandfather lost his entire family fleeing from East Prussia to Germany in 45. Grandfathers two brothers (aged 7 and 14), two sisters (aged 16 and 20), his mom and dad and uncle and uncles family. Raped, tortured, murdered. By "someone unknown" then, since it wasnt any soviet soldiers...

This explains a lot

Words like "war is war" are useless here

Do you think it could be better if your family could have some slaves from my family in Ukraine (if they could fit in 10% quote not to be eliminated) and the city where I was born was wiped off the face of Earth as planned? Or if it was my pregnant Grandmother to be killed, while she survived only because some "blonde knight" missed her car bombing a hospital train going East, to evacuation? Or if my Father didn't make a 300km horse ride from Rostov in 1941 and was killed as thousands of civilians there, only because Grandfather was a Red Army officer?

[Preon1]

This thread has been a Boroda flamefest for some time now.  Could this thread please be locked in favor of a properly titled one?

[Hortlund]

Boroda, I understand what you're saying.

I've been sitting here not really knowing what more to say. I mean what is there to say.

My grandmother lost 7 brothers during the war. The youngest was 4. My grandfather lost almost all his relatives. He was 17 when the war ended.

I know you have similar stories from your family.

Words are useless as you say.