Thoughts on why Christianity is fake

[AKIron]

Originally posted by StSanta
I ain't saying God isn't there. I am saying I lack any belief in such a deity as described in the bible, simply because there is no supporting evidence. The onus of proof rests on the shoulders of the claimant. I personally believe Barney the Atheist Loving God created your god. Disprove that!

What would you accept as proof? How about I present to you his creation; the universe. Guess we could go 'round and 'round on this.

Forgot to mention, blasphemy doesn't hurt God but rather the blasphemer. Kinda like an angry child that screams and insults it's parent. The parent is hurt only because of the injury done to the child by himself.

[Siaf__csf]

I guess a suitable proof would be an experiment where something would be done by divine intervention in a controlled enviroment.

The universe is not a very good proof AkIron because despite of your beliefs, nothing proves it was created by an entity.

Numerous scientists have described phenomenon they've seen and tested as 'the work of God' - that is untill later scientists proved that the unexplainable could be explained with quantum physics for example. Same has been repeated over and over in the history of man and science. The church institution has been extremely active in trying to stop the development of science. It was the official stance of the Church that there is no evolution and that the earth is a flat pancake. Scientists trying to prove otherwise were attacked heavily by the church and many lost even thier lives as a result.

So, untill someone can present a phenomenon to which there's no other explainable reason except the work of God, nobody can really tell if God exists or not. God could easily stop all this debate by appearing on top of the Empire State building and shouting from a cloud 'I exist now stop the pickering.'

The Bible says God is appearing to numerous people all the time.. Why did he stop?

[-ammo-]

God does not need to prove anything to you.  He is almighty. He provides the gift that saves people from hell. You only have to believe and put your faith in Him.  You choose to not believe, then that is your perogative, however, there is a price that is eternal.  

As for me and my house, I choose to believe.

all good men and women.

[Sandman]

I have a hard time believing that belief is a matter of choice.

IMHO, you either believe or you don't. WRT religion, I believe what I believe. As a child and a teenager, I spent a lot of time in church and I always felt dishonest. I could read the Bible but it didn't resonate. As an adult, I finally realized that I was not a believer and going through the motions was not going to make me one. The first time I said, "I am an atheist" felt like a weight off my conscience.

[Siaf__csf]

If he truly would be almighty, it would be no problem for him to prove he exists. It's not logical that the Bible talks about God's appearances repeatedly but there are no known occurrences in the recorded history after the bibliotic times.

Most likely these things 'stoped' happening once people started using thier own brains more and not believing everything to be coming directly from God. People were extremely superstitious during the decades that bible was written and tended to believe all sorts of stories very easily.

Edit: Much like Sandman I was raised to christian religion as a child. But very early on I started doubting the teachings simply because none of it made any sense to me. I saw how firmly my grandparents believed but even as a child I just couldn't agree with them. So maybe I was doomed from the birth.. tough luck.

[midnight Target]

My .02

I actually envy those who are true believers (in any religion). They seem very happy in their own skins, and have a simplified view of things that I'm sure is stress reducing and healthy.

I just can't do it.

[-ammo-]

Sandman, I can only say that as a man, you have to make a decision, and you have.   More power to you.  

I don't beleive that the truth is subjective.  I believe that it is solid, unmoving, and will never change.  God is, was, and will always be God.  Man is the flaky variable.

What I don't understand is the first statement you made I have a hard time believing that belief is a matter of choice.

Do you think that our minds are made up by some other force or something, that you don't have control over what you think, or believe?  please explain.

BTW, until I accepted Christ as my personal Savior, I could read the bible and it did not hit home with me.

[Siaf__csf]

MT: There are studies that clearly prove what you said is right. People with strong religious beliefs or people with tight communal ties and support network are generally healthier than people who lack this mental support network.

There's a reason why they say 'knowledge increases pain.'

[-ammo-]

siaf_csf-

I think that God sacrificed enough when he gave his son to endure the cross.  I think, with that sufficient sacrifice for all sin (remember that God is holy, he cannot permit sin in His prescence), that now he requires men and women to believe.  He doesn't owe a thing to mankind.  He has already given something that he cherished that he did not owe.  If you choose to not believe it, then so be it.

Know this, that that sacrifice proves to me (and all true believing Christians) that God loved me more than I could ever love.  When I consider whether I could do the same thing to that he did for this evil world,I don't think I could. My own son(s)?  No way.  Consider that objectively please.

just my POV, I know it does not sit well with all.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by -ammo-
Sandman, I can only say that as a man, you have to make a decision, and you have.   More power to you.  

I don't beleive that the truth is subjective.  I believe that it is solid, unmoving, and will never change.  God is, was, and will always be God.  Man is the flaky variable.

What I don't understand is the first statement you made I have a hard time believing that belief is a matter of choice.

Do you think that our minds are made up by some other force or something, that you don't have control over what you think, or believe?  please explain.
 

There you have it... I believe truth is indeed subjective. Take a group of witness from a crime scene or auto accident. They can all be telling the truth, but their stories are not all the same.

If there a universal truth, I haven't seen it. Nor have I seen any reason to believe in a god.

When it comes to belief... take it from an unbeliever's perspective. Do you think an unbeliever wakes up one day and says, "Today, I'll believe in Jesus Christ." and then it just happens?

[Siaf__csf]

I understand that Ammo but you should also realise that symbolism doesn't mean much to us who try to see things from the logical side.

This issue is just one that can't be argued I guess.

Anyways Ammo, you don't know this but you were my first wingman ever in AH special event (which I joined on my first day in AH) through which I found my fat love, the p47.

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM

When it comes to belief... take it from an unbeliever's perspective. Do you think an unbeliever wakes up one day and says, "Today, I'll believe in Jesus Christ." and then it just happens?

Absolutely not. I was an unbeliever for the first 24 years of my life. I can describe what I felt about God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ leading up to the point where I gave in and accepted that I was wrong. That in all my rationalizing, I was still wrong.

Then-  God?  He doesn't pay my bills. He doesn't allow "fun".  Christians? I have seen too many that like to do the same things that I do. If God is so loving and kind, he would never send me to hell. heck, I don't hurt anyone. I am not a murderer in the least.  How could He sned anyone to hell if he is so loving and He loves everyone?

Now-  God? He IS a loving God. He is also a God of wrath.  Yes he Loves me, why else would he sacrifice his only son to die for my sins, and all mankinds sins for that matter.  He seeks a personal relationship with me.  He wants me to lean on him wholly for all decisions in my life.  He has given me the Bible, His inerrant Word, as a guideline.  I believe that through all of lifes trials, that God knows best for me and I will trust Him.  Will it be easy? No, He did not promise an easy road.

[-ammo-]

Siaf-

I am glad that you have been stricken by the P-47 bug:)  She will take care of you if you treat her right.  Feel free to come fly in the Squadron Operations series of events with us if you like.  

I do understand why men want to logically justify things.  God just does not fit into that mold.

God is on a different level than men.  He states in the bible that He does not reveal all to us.  I just have to accept that and move on.  It is a hard thing for the analytical mind to just accept that God knows all and is in control, even beyond our own control.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by -ammo-
Absolutely not. I was an unbeliever for the first 24 years of my life. I can describe what I felt about God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ leading up to the point where I gave in and accepted that I was wrong. That in all my rationalizing, I was still wrong.

Then-  God?  He doesn't pay my bills. He doesn't allow "fun".  Christians? I have seen too many that like to do the same things that I do. If God is so loving and kind, he would never send me to hell. heck, I don't hurt anyone. I am not a murderer in the least.  How could He sned anyone to hell if he is so loving and He loves everyone?

Now-  God? He IS a loving God. He is also a God of wrath.  Yes he Loves me, why else would he sacrifice his only son to die for my sins, and all mankinds sins for that matter.  He seeks a personal relationship with me.  He wants me to lean on him wholly for all decisions in my life.  He has given me the Bible, His inerrant Word, as a guideline.  I believe that through all of lifes trials, that God knows best for me and I will trust Him.  Will it be easy? No, He did not promise an easy road.

So... would you say that you consciously chose God or that events in your life caused a change in your belief?

[kbman]

A couple of my favorite jokes.

Q.)  What is an agnostic, dyslexic insomniac?

A.) Someone who stays up all night wondering if there is a dog.

Q.) What did the Buddha say to the hotdog vendor?

A.) Make me one with everyting.

Apologies to anyone who's heard these old gems before.


kbman