Author Topic: Thoughts on why Christianity is fake (Read 2727 times)

Daff · « **Reply #60 on:** February 17, 2003, 11:29:59 AM »

"Kinda hard to imagine anything outside our realm of space and time isn't it? Of course a beginning or creation is only relevant when you're within the confines of time."

Not bad...would you accept if I used the same answer when someone asks me who created the universe?

Daff

AKIron · « **Reply #61 on:** February 17, 2003, 11:35:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Daff
"Kinda hard to imagine anything outside our realm of space and time isn't it? Of course a beginning or creation is only relevant when you're within the confines of time."

Not bad...would you accept if I used the same answer when someone asks me who created the universe?

Daff

Sure, in fact that is exactly what I was referring to, the creation of the universe.

However, if you're suggesting that just because we with limited perspectives can't conceive of anything beyond time and space and therefore it doesn't exist, I take exception.

Daff · « **Reply #62 on:** February 17, 2003, 11:38:12 AM »

Actually, it was a leading question. Normally I would say "I don't know who or what caused the big bang" and promptly get a "See!..it must have been God!"
Thanks for being reasonable about it.

Daff

AKIron · « **Reply #63 on:** February 17, 2003, 11:42:52 AM »

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Originally posted by Daff
Actually, it was a leading question. Normally I would say "I don't know who or what caused the big bang" and promptly get a "See!..it must have been God!"
Thanks for being reasonable about it.

Daff

No reaon for anyone that seeks truth to ever become unreasonable, imo. I'm not suggesting I always seek truth, I've been known to be moody and stubborn on occasion.

-dead- · « **Reply #64 on:** February 17, 2003, 11:45:18 AM »

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Originally posted by hblair
Sounds like you need to actually see what the bible says about the subject firsthand instead of making ignorant assumptions.

Which version of the bible? English, Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic? Before or after the Council of Nicea? Or the Council of Trent? Let's face it most Xians, indeed most people can't read the bible firsthand, because what they noramally read is a translation of a translation of a translation with a lot of editing and omissions in between each go at it, as well as the usual loss in translation. All of which makes the bible a rather tricky set of books.

midnight Target · « **Reply #65 on:** February 17, 2003, 11:56:41 AM »

The Bible is chock full of interesting stuff.

http://www.thereverend.com/brick_testament/genesis/rape_treachery_and_slaughter/gn34_15-16.html

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #66 on:** February 17, 2003, 12:46:06 PM »

Hblair I'm not trying to pin the bad things on THE church..

THE church was a set of very nice ideas that lived in the minds of christians.

Unfortunately as Cajun said the real church is nothing but a noble dream, things went wrong because during the times of Jesus and after, the church was the single most powerful tool of power at hand. The leading figures had great power, and that power corrupted them, enough to lead into murder.

It's the reason why Jesus got executed. He posed a clear threat to the powers that be.

The church used to have a really powerful role in the society, just think what Leonardo Da Vinci and Copernicus had to go through with the 'all knowing' church. If it wasn't for these few guys who risked ban (= practically losing thier lives) on thier blasphemous ideas, we'd still ride horse carts believing firmly the earth is flat.

On the other hand we wouldn't have to worry about overpopulation nor global warming.. Maybe the church was right afterall?

Rasker · « **Reply #67 on:** February 17, 2003, 12:53:57 PM »

There is one obscure school of thought that Jesus was married to Mary Magdelene, fathered one daughter and two sons, divorced Mary, traveled east, studied Buddhism, and died in Srinagar, Kashmir, at about 60 or 70 years of age. The two sons are supposedly ancestors of the Merovingian Frankish dynasty, which preceded the Carolingian dynasty (Charlemagne, etc.) on the throne of France. (Apparently Emperor Constantine shared some of this ancestry through his mother Helena, born of noble British blood.) Some allege that the heresy for which the Templars were destroyed was the belief in and allegiance to the persistence of Jesus' royal line, which is also the line of David and Solomon. The book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" gives more detail on this theory.

As to religious belief, I guess I am limited to believing in God as my creator and Man as my brother. The rest, I will find out in time, and, pending that, I think God would rather we follow the Golden Rule and honor God's creatures, our fellow humans, than worry about what exact name we should address God with and similar minutiae.

hblair · « **Reply #68 on:** February 17, 2003, 01:04:58 PM »

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Originally posted by Siaf__csf

THE church was a set of very nice ideas that lived in the minds of christians.

It was? Where'd you get that?

Quote

Originally posted by Siaf__csf

Unfortunately as Cajun said the real church is nothing but a noble dream, things went wrong because during the times of Jesus and after, the church was the single most powerful tool of power at hand. The leading figures had great power, and that power corrupted them, enough to lead into murder.

Wow, how would they get corrupted if they were following the scriptures? "Leading figures"?

Quote

Originally posted by Siaf__csf

The church used to have a really powerful role in the society, just think what Leonardo Da Vinci and Copernicus had to go through with the 'all knowing' church. If it wasn't for these few guys who risked ban (= practically losing thier lives) on thier blasphemous ideas, we'd still ride horse carts believing firmly the earth is flat.

On the other hand we wouldn't have to worry about overpopulation nor global warming.. Maybe the church was right afterall?

Again you refer to what man did on his own. Is man encouraged to conquer or opress others by the scriptures in the bible? If not, where did it come from?
From man. That's the point. All the terrible things you've been listing isn't even part of christianity. It's not the church. It's what man did with it. The church is perfect. Man isn't.

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #69 on:** February 17, 2003, 01:42:19 PM »

Hblair it seems you're talking of church as a paraphrase. An ideal..

I'm talking about the church as it is. An organisation run by men. This organisation has done all the attrocities I'm talking about.

For the true church, one does not need church buildings. One does not need a parish nor priests. It's within.

All the structures that man artificially creates around faith are not the true church, yet many follow it blindly. They believe what the priests or the pope says to them, even though they're just mortals like any of us. And certainly not smarter..

Horrible things have been justified during the millenia with quotes from the bible. The book was not meant to be used that way for sure, but because of blind faith and fear, the unimaginable became reality in the hands of a few rotten apples.

If people would have been able to use thier own reasoning instead of faith and respect to the church politics, this world would look a lot different.

AKIron · « **Reply #70 on:** February 17, 2003, 01:44:56 PM »

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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
If people would have been able to use thier own reasoning instead of faith and respect to the church politics, this world would look a lot different.

That assumes an awful lot. If not for morality and conscience imposed by religion the world would indeed be a lot different, but not in the way I think you imagine.

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #71 on:** February 17, 2003, 02:35:03 PM »

Well if you think for a minute of how many intellectuals church managed to burn as witches, you can't help but wonder of all the knowledge destroyed in the process. Knowledge which would have potentially helped human kind in it's development. But it was all suppressed or killed in the dark ages.

Church knew even back then that knowledge was power. Therefore they destroyed a huge amount of priceless works of science and the rest they kept for thierselves in the closed church libraries..

It seems they knew also then that the more primitive people are, the more prone they're in believing the cock and bull they wanted them to believe.

Vulcan · « **Reply #72 on:** February 17, 2003, 03:58:19 PM »

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Originally posted by AKIron
That assumes an awful lot. If not for morality and conscience imposed by religion the world would indeed be a lot different, but not in the way I think you imagine.

This assumes even more. The eastern world has managed fairly well without Christianity.

hblair · « **Reply #73 on:** February 17, 2003, 04:08:01 PM »

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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Hblair it seems you're talking of church as a paraphrase. An ideal..

no man...

I'm talking about the church as it is explained in the Bible. You're talking about church as what man has done with it in the past 2000 years or so. There's a big difference. I hope you see it.

I know man screwed it up in many ways. You know man screwed it up in many ways (not as bad as you want to believe but we'll say you're right)

What you refer to in your ramblings isn't christs church. It's man's halfhearted attempt at it. So when you call it "church" you're really just describing a bunch of misled religious people.

AKIron · « **Reply #74 on:** February 17, 2003, 04:08:41 PM »

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Originally posted by Vulcan
This assumes even more. The eastern world has managed fairly well without Christianity.

I didn't say Christianity, I said religion.