Author Topic: Do the Anti-War Protestors Realize...  (Read 2227 times)

Offline Pongo

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Do the Anit-War Protestors Realize...
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2003, 10:08:50 PM »
"If not, well you can rely on your belief that the US always has evil ulterior motives to harm the innocent. One of those would have to be to destablize the Gulf Arab dictatorships/monarchies by planting a successful democracy in their midst. "

?
I think the last two democrosies planted by the US were in Japan and Germany. The US really finds democrocies inconvientent in the coutries it uses for resource supply.
It is right now working to tear down the democracy in guatimala.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #61 on: February 16, 2003, 10:21:25 PM »
Yes, you mentioned South America before.

I didn't see your reply to my questions about that.

I ask them again.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Suave

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« Reply #62 on: February 16, 2003, 10:52:34 PM »
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Originally posted by blur
Lets see.

On one side we have people expressing their opposition to needless death and suffering.

 


Yeah, and on the other side you have all the pro Saddam protetesters .

Offline -dead-

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« Reply #63 on: February 17, 2003, 12:57:18 AM »
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Originally posted by Toad
One less source is one less source. The rest will have to wait their turn.
Hmm... let's assume for a moment that Hussein is a source: where does it end? Will the US military eventually invade hardware stores and pharmacies? Ban X-rays, hospitals and medical research? The potential sources are really too numerous, and 9-11 shows the terrorists really don't need that much in the way of what we consider weapons to do the job. But back to the source assumption - is he really? I personally don't know, and I can't off hand recall any evidence that he is. And Hussein is certainly aware that if you give biological and chemical weapons to others they may be used against you later. After all, he himself has done exactly that to the West. Although that said, I'd be up for erring on the side of caution and assuming he is.
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I will save my fingers. There is no proof that you will accept that would necessitate changing your mind. No security service from any country is going to expose all their sources and information down to the last detail in order to convince people that cannot be convinced. You, by admission, are one of those.
Everyone is lying everywhere and all the time...... except of course the sources YOU choose to believe.
You remind me of Boroda and the Katyn Forest culpability issue. :)
Oh no I could be convinced, if there is solid evidence from third party or disinterested people. Find me a quote from someone in UNSCOM who has not worked for an espionage agency and has not spent most of his working life in the US State Department and I would be much more receptive. But anything coming from US government agencies or employees that backs up that government's statements has to be treated as being suspicious. I am, however, an equal opportunities paranoid - I believe anything coming from Iraqi government agencies or employees that backs up that government's statements has to be treated as being suspicious as well. I rather hoped you might avoid any risk of RSI typing out more evidence from US government sources, or sources that have just received fat US government contracts after helping out the pentagon. Perhaps your difficulty in comprehension of this concept stems from the old adage that it's always much easier to see the other side's propaganda. Certainly something that has been reinforced by many arguments involving Boroda I have seen. I remain eminently convincible and entirely unconvinced. As to your wonderful truism that I only believe sources that I choose to believe - welcome to reality - I think you'll find everyone does that, you included.
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I'm sure it will be difficult without the input of France and Germany but I believe it will be the UN that plays the largest role in determining the nature of any "future" Iraq. That sainted UN the world so reveres.
Sorry I don't understand this bit - what will be difficult without the input of France and Germany? Why won't France and Germany be making inputs if it's to do with the UN? Hehe, I do believe the very mention of the dreadful UN makes you lose your train of thought. ;)
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If not, well you can rely on your belief that the US always has evil ulterior motives to harm the innocent. One of those would have to be to destablize the Gulf Arab dictatorships/monarchies by planting a successful democracy in their midst. :D
Well as I said last post - I'll believe it when I see it, but the US track record since Germany and Japan has been pretty much all downhill from those two. Whether this is an insidious plot or not I don't know. Perhaps your view of the US as an altruistic state, a political fairy godmother if you will (waving it's magic military might and saying "you shall be a democracy") is correct. If so, however, the case histories seem to bear out the old phrase: "the path to hell is paved with good intentions." And by extension the US foreign policy of altruism since 45 has been so incompetently run that US foreign experts should probably not even be allowed to play with plastic scissors.
I personally think that US foreign policy is cobbled together ad hoc, by professional bureaucrats informed by information of varying reliability who are lead by well-meaning total amateurs who really aren't sure what they're doing. All these people are trying to protect US self-interest in the short term (4-8 years). Much the same as any other country. Of course the US has the extra complication of having a military that's larger than the next 6 militaries put together. The heads of the military realize that the military has to be used fairly often to justify the enormous expenditure that it incurs, and no doubt advise the government accordingly, as indeed they themselves are advised, because nobody likes to lose their toys or their jobs. Mix these elements plus US culture & business together and you come up with US foreign policy - no insidious plot, and no political fairy godmother either. And definitely open to all the usual human fallibilities and foibles.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2003, 01:06:51 AM by -dead- »
“The FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.” --  Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI, June 5, 2006.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #64 on: February 17, 2003, 01:23:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
the people of iraq must want saddam to stay in power , 95% of them voted for saddam last election.


My god !!!
you trust this kind of election ????

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #65 on: February 17, 2003, 04:32:22 AM »
Man you Conservatives are simple minded fools.

I really, really, really wish the world worked the way you think it does, but unfortunately actions have reactions and reactions and reactions, ect, ect, ect.  Removing Saddam is not some surgical operation that ends then and there and we can move on to other things.  There is going to be a huge ripple effect, only a little of which can the CIA / Mossad or MI6 predict, much less a bunch of Conservative or Liberal whacks sitting in God knows where with no connection to any of this at all.
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Offline Toad

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RE: Fuselage at Salman Pak
« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2003, 10:49:28 PM »
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Originally posted by -dead-
How fortuitous that Space Imaging found that picture in their archive. That would be the same Space Imaging that sold all the exclusive rights to their stock of images of Afghan bomb damage to the pentagon, and the same company that just got a $120 million government mapping contract (with a five-year ceiling of $500 million) shortly after finding the archived picture, and no doubt in a squeaky clean vision of the US government, these incidents are all unrelated.



Recently reported:
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Southeast of Baghdad, Marines seized one of Saddam's palaces, poked through remnants of a Republican Guard headquarters and searched a suspected terrorist training camp, finding the shell of a passenger jet believed to be used for hijacking practice.




:p
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2003, 11:22:20 PM »
There's a point you came dangerously close to getting. You better watch that. :D

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Originally posted by straffo
My god !!!
you trust this kind of election ????

Offline -tronski-

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« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2003, 12:32:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
Do the Pro war americans realize they look like brainwashed  idiots?
Do they realize that in any parallel between the munich crisis and today Sadam will play the part of the Czech President and Bush will play the part of Hitler. So Sadam is appeasing aggression by trying to meet the US demands and not the other way arround?


Its a Foxnews type of thing...keep it simple for the simpleton.

Everything has to be put in the Chamberlain, Munich , Auschwitz comparisons.
Thats how you can have the...be like the appeasers who let hitler start WW2, and who let Auchwitz happen arguments.

 Tronsky
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