Author Topic: My True Feelings.....by Rude  (Read 3126 times)

Offline SLO

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #135 on: February 19, 2003, 10:04:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
You merely have to look at the difference between North Korea and South Korea right now and then consider how well VietNam is doing since unified under the rule of the North to see what it was all about in both Korea and VietNam.

See, Slo, the problem with the unresearched "I read it off a protest poster" view of the world is that it totally ignores the reality of the world right in front of you.



so what your sayin is that I only read protest posters and ignore everything else....

Korea was just a staging ground for control of the region between the allies(democracy) and Russia/China(communism)

vietnam was just a staging ground for control of the region between the US(democracy) /Russia(communism)

they both fought for supremcy of either democracy or communism

hmm does that sound stupid to you....or maybe I'll keep reading protest posters:D

Offline Puke

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #136 on: February 19, 2003, 10:54:52 AM »
Toad, I've actually not read that book but I've been behind on my readings.  Ever since starting Aces High, I've slowed my Vietnam readings and have been covering WW2, though I'm currently going through Michel's "The 11 Days Of Christmas."  But I'm about ready to make another mass-buy on Amazon and will include the title you mention.

Slo, it sounds like you try to use the term Police Action and make it something negative, though I wouldn't really classify the Vietnam War as a police action.  But if it were, I don't necessarily see anything negative in one.  Really, to describe the Vietnam War in one-sentence I would state it was a war to repel invasion, which I think was a noble cause.  The Ho Chi Minh Trail was a one-way street and ran north to south.  Supplies came in from the ports in the northeast and along the northeast and northwest railroad and journeyed south to make war IN  the South.  There was never any invasion north or attempt to overthrow the North by the South.  Troops and tanks never rushed north to invade Vinh or Thanh Hoa or even Hanoi and Haiphong.  And it wasn't a war to kill babies and civilians, but quite the opposite.  It would have been easy to do, because though you think of Vietnam and lots of water and rice paddies, it's only that way due to dikes and damns.  It would have been easy to flood out a good deal of the population and once that's done, starve them because they could no longer grow their rice.  The bombing first started in an effort to send signals to Hanoi to stop the aggression and later was used to target those areas that supported aggression south.  But again, I re-iterate, there was no invasion north.  The South was invaded from the waters to the esat and south, from Laos and Cambodia to the West and for a time from the North across the DMZ...on all sides.  Montezuma had a great point about Diem's regime, but democracy I guess can take some time to get right and the effort was there.  And sometimes it's a case of a lesser of two evils just like our support for the USSR against Nazi-Germany, the support of troubled SVN govts (loaded with corruption) against invading communists.  It was also a different time, and the USSR did make threats upon the world including Nikita stating "we will bury you."  Along with the Berlin Airlift, Korean invasion, communist Chinese takeover, Hungarian uprising, Cuba and really a host more.  Though I personally believe the idea was noble, how it was run was not.  And Pierce Arrow really set the tone for poor management of the war when the strikes were announced in Washington prior to them actually occuring because of a blunder and which provided time for the defenses to get poised and ready.  And in the end, two-years after the USA pulled out of the region, SVN, Laos and Cambodia fell to communism and underwent killings and ethnic cleansing of tragic proportions.  Not every step taken along the way to the path of war was perfect, but I still think it a noble cause...to defend against invasion a country struggling for democracy.  

I gotta run to work.

Offline Toad

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #137 on: February 19, 2003, 11:17:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
hmm does that sound stupid to you....or maybe I'll keep reading protest posters:D



I make it a practice not to make ad hominem attacks.

I'll just say that's an extremely superficial view.

As I said, the difference between North Korea and South Korea today alone should tell you what it was about.

And that's just one example. The gulf between East and West Germany prior to reunification is another.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #138 on: February 19, 2003, 11:21:31 AM »
Puke,

Scout around the Borders, B. Dalton's and Waldenbooks first. I found my copy on the "sale bench" for a mere fraction of the list price.

It does focus quite a bit on this that you just stated:

"but democracy I guess can take some time to get right and the effort was there."

The effort was finally coming together but too late. And as I said, it's amazingly well documented.

Enjoy!
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline AKIron

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #139 on: February 19, 2003, 11:24:23 AM »
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Originally posted by Toad
As I said, the difference between North Korea and South Korea today alone should tell you what it was about.

And that's just one example. The gulf between East and West Germany prior to reunification is another.


How arrogant Toad, to suggest that South Korea and both West and East Germany wouldn't be what they are today without US sacrifice/involvement/interferrence. And not just WWII but ever since. The audacity.   :rolleyes:
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Offline SLO

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #140 on: February 19, 2003, 12:25:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
How arrogant Toad, to suggest that South Korea and both West and East Germany wouldn't be what they are today without US sacrifice/involvement/interferrence. And not just WWII but ever since. The audacity.   :rolleyes:



please no insult intended.....

but why is it you only mention the US.....in Korea it was the ALLIES....in Germany it was the ALLIES.....

My uncle who is dead today...fought in Korea....not mentionning your Allies is an INSULT...but yet you do it all the time....take care how you show yourself....or some might think your ARROGANT!!!!

then the arrogants say: who cares there just jealous

its not a question of jealousy...but recognition


please no insults intended

Offline AKIron

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #141 on: February 19, 2003, 12:28:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
please no insult intended.....

but why is it you only mention the US.....in Korea it was the ALLIES....in Germany it was the ALLIES.....

My uncle who is dead today...fought in Korea....not mentionning your Allies is an INSULT...but yet you do it all the time....take care how you show yourself....or some might think your ARROGANT!!!!

then the arrogants say: who cares there just jealous

its not a question of jealousy...but recognition


please no insults intended


No insult taken, nor was a slight intended. However, I'll go on a limb here and suggest that without US initiative there would have been no allied participation in either Korea or in defeating the USSR in Germany.
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Offline SLO

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #142 on: February 19, 2003, 12:54:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
No insult taken, nor was a slight intended. However, I'll go on a limb here and suggest that without US initiative there would have been no allied participation in either Korea or in defeating the USSR in Germany.


as a recognized SUPER power you ARE supposed to take the lead....it doesn't mean you can flash it in everyones faces.....a little humility goes a long way.....

but as a neighbor of yours....I understand most of ya's.....I grew up watching... listening... to most of what you all listen too.

BUT....not all understand or know where you come from....most perceive it as arrogance....no insult intended please

Offline AKIron

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My True Feelings.....by Rude
« Reply #143 on: February 19, 2003, 01:18:27 PM »
Just trying to take the lead again in Iraq where it's needed. A little shaming of some seems to be in order. If that doesn't work then just stand the hell back so you don't get hurt.
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Offline blitz

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Sorry Slo, puke convinced at last :(
« Reply #144 on: February 20, 2003, 03:54:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
a little news for blitz......vietnam was a justified war.....i repeat....vietnam was a justified...hmm.. hmm police action:p


never disagree with em blitz..or they'll all jump on ya:rolleyes:

ya gotta see it the american way my german friend.....muhahahaha:D

Vietnam was a cold war action between 2 super powers of the time.....PERIOD!!!!

just like Korea.:cool:



Sorry Slo, can't follow that road of Anti - War Propaganda any more.
Maybe Hang and puke, Toad and Sauerkraut convinced me.
I must admit Saddam Hussein and his mighthy republikan gard is a thread to America like the overwelming deadly Vietnam was.


Regards Blitz



















































Saddam is a bigger threath to the America and the world than i thought.

He's got the secret weapon ever Hitler dreamed of.

He want's to destroy the free words morality and  America's

civil rights.

Damn, he's won the first battles already if we look to Americas and Englands gouvernment.