Tour 20 Fighter Vs stats

[AKDejaVu]

Sky Viper,

Nobody is "dwindling success" for any of the aircraft.  The aircraft will be successful regardless.. that's why they are perked.  There is one thing that is a constant in the arena... any outstanding aircraft will be predominant.

HTC perks because they feel a planes existance <unperked> would be unbalancing... or in the case of the F4u-1C... proved itself to be unbalancing.  Its that simple.

I side benifit is that perk points can be dangled as a carrot in front of people to entice them to use the less effective aircraft.  This has worked somewhat... but it hasn't done much to disuade them from using the more effective planes <N1K2, Spitfire and so on>.

Basically... it is not the great equalizer for the MA... but it not a negative impact to the MA.  Most people seem to criticize it because it doesn't do all the things they want it to... without acknowledging that it does do what it was intended to do.

AKDejaVu

[DanielMcIntyre]

Sky Viper - you ever wondered why theres only one free parking spot on the board?

think about it huh


 

[lazs1]

deja said... "here's what you do say:

We need parity in the MA
I don't like when people ruin my fun
I think this is fun"

Well now... that's a little more representitive.   "we need parity in the MA"  Well.... yeah.   sorry if I hurt the feelings of some "pilot" who is just trying to have fun by having a huge unfair advantage or by gaming a part of "strat" that is FUBAR lopsided"... Gee, I guess calling him an attention starved no talent dweeb is accurate but .... Unkind?  

"I don't like it when people ruin my fun" well gee.... no, don't guess hardly anyone does but.... I really HATE it when the guy uses a loophole to do it.   Look... If you could read and comprhend or, more likely, if you bothered to, you would note a common thread in what I post.  

I want variety and parity and I think the perk system makes a mockery of that.   A pale imitation of both.  

parity is not making all the unfair advantages more rare.  Parity is not allowing the best pilts to club the worst by also having the most untouchable ac.. Parity is not allowing a couple of people to have a huge affect on the play ("ruin my fun") of many by using less effort and talent than any other sector of the MA populace or elements (fluffers).  

 Variety is not putting every plane in WWII in the same arena and then pricing them at different rates so that the best cheap plane or two see 30% of the usage and most others are down in the 1 or 2% usage rate.   Variety is not having all mid/late war planes with no chance of having early war planes.

Early, mid and late war planes don't mix well.  Even our zeke is an armored late war plane with self sealing tanks and it get's slaughtered in the arena.   It wouldn't even be used half as much if it werent cv capable either... A spit one or hurri one or mig one etc. would be a joke... we just don't see em being modeled.   The most important planes of WWII are being cast asside BECAUSE of the perk system.   Or, more to the point, the direction the perk system is takng us.   Faster and faster planes.

"I think this is fun"....  meaningless but untruthfull nonetheless.  You may be able to drag that combination of words out of all I have ever said but I doubt even that.   I think you pulled it out of your bellybutton or it's something you think and you have attributed it to me.

clear enough for ya?  

Oh, and somehow I still didn't quite get the gist of your explanation of how the perk sytem was gonna work with early war planes?
lazs

[Sky Viper]

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
HTC perks because they feel a planes existance <unperked> would be unbalancing... or in the case of the F4u-1C... proved itself to be unbalancing.  Its that simple.

I side benifit is that perk points can be dangled as a carrot in front of people to entice them to use the less effective aircraft.  This has worked somewhat... but it hasn't done much to disuade them from using the more effective planes <N1K2, Spitfire and so on>.

Basically... it is not the great equalizer for the MA... but it not a negative impact to the MA.  Most people seem to criticize it because it doesn't do all the things they want it to... without acknowledging that it does do what it was intended to do.

AKDejaVu

"BALANCE" is the problem.  By trying to balance the arena, the perk system has caused an unbalanced condition.
If you want to take a Tempest into a heavy fight area, you can't. Well, unless you intend to have 90% of that fight focus on you!
THAT is wrong!
Perks aside, most pilots concentrate on the closest/easiest kills.  Good pilots will use their SA to concentrate on the enemy who is the biggest threat. With Perks in place, both of these concepts go out the window.

Just last night, I died in a fight because 3 point hungry dweebs broke off a fight and went after Glasses in his Ta152.  He wasn't even a threat!  THAT SUCKS!!! That is NOT ballance, that is a NEGATIVE IMPACT!

Viper

[Wotan]

viper you cant fly a tempest because everyone wil chase you?. Just like everyone chased glasses? making hard for you to get kills in and easier for you to die in?

well go check temp/ta152 k/d they get kills and way more then they die. Now imagine the same plane with everyone flying it with no regard to losing his perks. Things damn sure will be balanced everyone in 262s temp and f4u-4s.  

Sounds like your a bit to uptight to fly a perk. A temp in ah is as untouchable as a 262 flown right. What is there 5 perk planes all relatively recent additions to AH. You flew AH well before perks and you couldn't fly a temp what is it your missing out on?

60 perks aren't hard to get and it wont kill you if you lose 60. You can fly what you want you just gotta be able to pay for it.

[Sky Viper]

Originally posted by Zygote:
Sky Viper - you ever wondered why theres only one free parking spot on the board?

think about it huh


   

Because the chance at a "Windfall" is slim but real.
<shrug> Not much thought needed for that one.

That square was added to the game to give players a chance to stay alive and continue having fun with friends.
Perks do the opposite. They deny the "lesser" players(in some cases, unlucky players due to poor connects) the chance to fly the better planes.

The system does not add fairness to gameplay, it takes it away and even adds a disadvantage by making the "Perk" plane tow it's own "Kill me" banner.

It would be very cool to see more Tempests fly into furballs, but that's not gonna happen because they are a death trap under the current system.

Viper

[Wotan]

laz the best pilots dont necessarily earn the most perks.

Perk points aren't just an accumulation of kills.

You can have far fewer kills and far less time flying online if you fly planes with a high eny value and go after planes with the lowest and get a ton of perks.

for example I had a 10 kill sortie in a g2 and outa that 9 were nikis 27.xxx perk points in about an hour or so.

The problem fer new guys is while they are learning ah the gravitate to the planes they can get the easy kills in. Which is fine . But even if they kill 10 planes and rtb it will take umm a week to get 30 perks. Then they whine how wrong the perk system is.

I have no opinion about the current perk system other then to laugh at those who complain that how "unfair" it is. Its 5 planes relatively rare ones at that.

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]

[Sky Viper]

Originally posted by Wotan:
viper you cant fly a tempest because everyone wil chase you?. Just like everyone chased glasses? making hard for you to get kills in and easier for you to die in?

well go check temp/ta152 k/d they get kills and way more then they die.

As it was already pointed out, that is because only the better pilots fly them, and they fly to survive. You don't see them in furballs having fun, you see them way above or way faster than the rest, picking off smokers and slow turning aircraft.
 

Now imagine the same plane with everyone flying it with no regard to losing his perks. Things damn sure will be balanced everyone in 262s temp and f4u-4s.

YEPPER!  Power where it belongs! That is what we all did prior to the perk system. Hell prior to the whines about the C Hog dominating the arena.
 

Sounds like your a bit to uptight to fly a perk.

LMAO...No, not at all! In fact, check my stats the last 3 tours, you will find I fly them and do well.
I just don't want to be the center of attention unless it's because I'm out flying everyone around me. Temp/262/Ar234 flags make you the center of attention whether you can fly them right or not.
 

 A temp in ah is as untouchable as a 262 flown right. What is there 5 perk planes all relatively recent additions to AH. You flew AH well before perks and you couldn't fly a temp what is it your missing out on?

I'm missing out on being able to fly the Tempest the way I can fly the Spit or 109.  I don't get attention in non perk birds unless I deserve it.
In the Tempest, a huge majority of dweebs will try to get you and leave the rest of the fighters alone.
I'm also missing out on getting to kill them because they are so rare.  
 

60 perks aren't hard to get and it wont kill you if you lose 60. You can fly what you want you just gotta be able to pay for it.

Yep.
I get the points, I spend the points. I just know I don't have to spend as many in the C Hog as I do in a tempest.  Not because it has a lower value, but because when you see F4U, you don't know if it's a perk bird or not.
Everything else, including the Hog -4 has a built in flag in it's ICON.

I think MLB should make Barry Bonds use a Little League Bat since he obviously can hit better than everyone else.  

Viper

[hazed-]

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:

Most others grasp this very simple concept lazs.  Until figure it out, I guess I'll always be pompus in your eyes.

AKDejaVu

yep AKDV.

Laz after reading what you wrote on parity etc I did get what you meant and to a certain extent you are correct. But it doesnt hold up against an arena full of people who ALL want DIFFERENT things!.

We see complaints from people that perk planes are hunted? Well wake up brother what do you think would happen if 3 or 4 p51s saw a lone me262 in a bad position in WW2? they would vulch its bellybutton off.

The perk system has its flaws its true, but its being adjusted right now and the people saying its failed are being selfish in one way or another.Either they wont accept being made to fly lesser planes because of lack of points or they complain when someone does collect the perks and then flies well in those perked planes and get good K/ds.
So what DO you want? you want to be able to fly tempests all day and kill all those lovely lesser planes? WELL WAKE UP! if the tempest/me262/ta152/f4u-4 werent perked THAT IS ALL YOU WOULD EVER SEE!!!!
no more 202/spit5/109f/zeros/etc etc. ok yes some would fly them but the majority would be flying super rides.The free perk night proved it.Fun for what?????? 20 minutes?
PLEASE people give it a chance.
I think the only answer is very low costs but a dynamic perk system.As one type of aircraft starts to flood the arena they start to score less then finally they cost perks.Use them more and the price rises.
whether this is possible i very much doubt because it would be tricky to implement so HTC does it by hand.Ok they may get it wrong but i appreciate the INTENTION they have.
Laz and others i think clearly understand the cocept here but dont want it to succeed! I just dont understand you guys.
So this tour the spits are everywhere with the niks? give em a 'small' perk value until their use falls.
I think the days when the f4uc was everywhere really spoiled my enjoyment of AH and i considered quiting several times because the MA did not resemble a WW2 air fight at all! f4ucs vs f4ucs got REAL dull.
it was given what i think was maybe a tad too hi a perk value of 8. I think 5 would have been just as effective and would have reduced any aircrafts overuse.
BUT it MUST be EXCESSIVE overuse, not popularity.We need that balance and i dont envy HTC the task of tracking all the numbers.
Laz lets just take a moment to explain what we want the MA to be, you too AKDV.
Me? I want a WW2 like action game.I want to pick a german plane and fight american and RAF stuff.Then take a US plane and fight jap stuff.I want to fly the really rare stuff but i dont want to see an arena flooded with them.I want to fight EVERY aircraft without any 'AIDS' eg bomber guns.And I WANT TARGETS   varied and fun targets that effect the game and are harder to hit the for the greater effect on the game they have.I dont want to constantly furball although i do love them.sometimes i take long sorties or go buff hunting etc.I love the varied choices.
I dont have 1000s of perks, 200 odd as a matter of fact so I dont agree with this elitist perk crap.Seems to me those with high numbers of perks are a bit more crazy in those perks and take bigger risks.fester has lost 1000 perks in a week having fun in an me262 at 10k and under, and hes not alone, read the boards for the cries of pilots losing hundreds lol  

All i request is that we compromise with each other.Laz you want this fighter only type arena with areas of different era planes i believe? no perks etc?

well whats to stop me in my free me262 flying over to the 1940 area and raping every plane i see?just doesnt hold up.
are we going to have ERA barriers?
limitation of distance flown or something?
begins to sound more 'limiting' than the perks system!.

[Ripsnort]

That was mean, I editted it.

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]

[Bozon12]

Did anyone notice that n1k is leading the chute shooting table?
139 chutes.

the bastards!  

Bozon

[AKDejaVu]

That's not chute shooting... that's the total it was killed by a chute.  Chute shooting is no longer tracked as far as I can see.

AKDejaVu

[Swager]

Great job on the stats!

Can't believe an argument arises from such nice work!  

I fly the 109F4 alot.  I haven't burned a perk point yet.  Probably never will.  I still believe in the system though, and IMHO it is a good idea. I flew the 262 on free night.  It was OK, but I'm a piston/prop man and dont need that jet stuff!

Such an enjoyable simulation!

 

[Shamus]

Got one word for u guys, Leviathn, grab any of your "perk planes" and fight his 1941 spit.

Shamus

[Steven]

<<<I want to pick a german plane and fight american and RAF stuff.Then take a US plane and fight jap stuff.>>> - Hazed

This is where I have hope for the CT.  For a few weeks it may be early PTO aircraft only and then switch to late war ETO and then to whatever else can be thought of.  I think it might prove interesting just having a large map of ocean and each country starts out with a set number of CV and battlegroups in a war of CV attrition.  Then the MA can be anything it wants to be....

Until then, the MA is not fair to all and there may be no way to make it fair to all.  Someone above made comment to killing 9 aircraft in a row and quickly racking up perk points as if it's the norm.  I'll argue that this is incredibly atypical and most have trouble getting more than one kill per sortie if they are not dealing with a negative K/D ratio as it is.  The accumulation of perk points and thus the availability of the perk planes is not equal to all.  I personally do not know the answer to this.  Limiting the most lethal or most often used aircraft to only a certain number in the air at a time per country makes access fair and based on first-come first-serve, but I can see problems with that already that I'll not even go into and be clear I do not suggest this at this time.  

I do not know the future of AH, but being a fan of early-war aircraft I'm concerned with not being able to fly Wildcats and P-40s in the MA.  Yeah sure, they'll be available to fly but what's the point when you'll be an incredible minority in the arena and dead before the first turn?  A N1K2 is to a P40 what an ME262 is to a N1K2.  We either put in place a system to limit the superior aircraft so that the early war aircraft are available (and yeah, just shoot down 9 aircraft in your Wildcat to get the perks to fly what you want) or we won't perk the Spits and N1Ks thereby making Wildcats and Warhawks deathtraps and a very aggravating ride.  It's a no win situation, I think.  I'm waiting for the CT to mature!

One last point... perk planes are sought/hunted just as much as the easy-kills are sought/hunted.