Author Topic: A report about anti-war thugs and their tactics and motivation...  (Read 409 times)

Offline wulfie

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'Writing in the Jerusalem Post, Amir Taheri reports on his experience with the pro-Saddam mob this weekend:

I spent part of last Saturday with the so-called "antiwar" marchers in London in the company of some Iraqi friends. Our aim had been to persuade the organizers to let at least one Iraqi voice to be heard. Soon, however, it became clear that the organizers were as anxious to stifle the voice of the Iraqis in exile as was Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

The Iraqis had come with placards reading "Freedom for Iraq" and "American rule, a hundred thousand times better than Takriti tyranny!"

But the tough guys who supervised the march would have none of that. Only official placards, manufactured in thousands and distributed among the "spontaneous" marchers, were allowed. These read "Bush and Blair, baby-killers," "Not in my name," "Freedom for Palestine" and "Indict Bush and Sharon."

Not one placard demanded that Saddam should disarm to avoid war.

The goons also confiscated photographs showing the tragedy of Halabja, the Kurdish town where Saddam's forces gassed 5,000 people to death in 1988.

A 78-year-old Iraqi grandmother managed to reach featured speaker Jesse Jackson and asked if she could "have the microphone for one minute to tell the people about my life." Jackson's response: "Today is not about Saddam Hussein. Today is about Bush and Blair and the massacre they plan in Iraq."'

From:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1045716158864

(registration required)

Mike/wulfie

Offline Saurdaukar

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A report about anti-war thugs and their tactics and motivation...
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2003, 09:59:54 PM »
Who says this isnt the land of the free?

Everybody's got an agenda... the rest just want attention.

Offline bounder

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Re: A report about anti-war thugs and their tactics and motivation...
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2003, 05:17:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wulfie
'Writing in the Jerusalem Post, Amir Taheri reports on his experience with the pro-Saddam mob this weekend:

I spent part of last Saturday with the so-called "antiwar" marchers in London in the company of some Iraqi friends. Our aim had been to persuade the organizers to let at least one Iraqi voice to be heard. Soon, however, it became clear that the organizers were as anxious to stifle the voice of the Iraqis in exile as was Saddam Hussein in Iraq.
[/b]
False. The stop the war coalition has the endorsement of many Iraqi exiles. Iraqi exiles are now being traded as currency among pro and anti camps as 'evidence' that the war is a good/bad thing. This is equally distasteful on both sides.
Quote

The Iraqis had come with placards reading "Freedom for Iraq" and "American rule, a hundred thousand times better than Takriti tyranny!"

But the tough guys who supervised the march would have none of that. Only official placards, manufactured in thousands and distributed among the "spontaneous" marchers, were allowed. These read "Bush and Blair, baby-killers," "Not in my name," "Freedom for Palestine" and "Indict Bush and Sharon."
[/b]

False. Any one looking at the pictures will realise that yes, masses of placards were produced by the Stop the War Coalition, the MAB, CND and others, but there were also tens of thousands of home made placards, flags, banners, pennants souund systems and so on.

 With only 500 stewards (the "tough guys supervising the march", half of whom were women, several of whom were Grandmothers) and 1,000,000 demonstrators headed for Hyde Park, either on the march or by their own route, there is no way in hell they could have supressed any kind of counter protest. They were far to busy working with the police and the marchers to ensure a peaceful and enjoyable demo.
Quote

Not one placard demanded that Saddam should disarm to avoid war.
[/b]
False. Plenty did.
There were tens of thousands of home made placards ranging from "DISARM NOW!" to "down with this sort of thing" and "George Bush has a Small noodle", "War is stupid", "Mad dogs and englishmen", "Stop giving us poodles a bad name". "Shrubs not Bush" "Bush and Saddam - kiss and make up" etc.etc. In fact all the best placards were home made since they showed a humour sorely lacking in most of the mass produced placards.
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The goons also confiscated photographs showing the tragedy of Halabja, the Kurdish town where Saddam's forces gassed 5,000 people to death in 1988.
[/b]
I can't deny this, but these 'goons' were civilians on a civilian march. The idea of the stewards 'confiscating' anything of the marchers is laughable. Even if the Stewards had tried to do it, why would the Iraqi exiles have given them up, they would have been under no compulsion to do so, there would have been a police officer within 30 yards they could have legitimately asked for help. It doesn't add up
Quote


A 78-year-old Iraqi grandmother managed to reach featured speaker Jesse Jackson and asked if she could "have the microphone for one minute to tell the people about my life." Jackson's response: "Today is not about Saddam Hussein. Today is about Bush and Blair and the massacre they plan in Iraq."'
[/b]
Yeah, that's Jesse Jackson talking.

There was a pro war demonstration outside the Iraqi section of the Jordanian Embassy, it might have made sense if they went there.

As a counter demonstration it went entirely unnoticed, and perhaps that was the point.

The author of the piece is an Iranian btw. I don't know whether that has anything to do with it, but it's conceivable he already wants a war on Iraq for other reasons.

Let's hope he's equally vociferous in support of a war on Iran for sponsoring terrorism and having a cruel and inhuman regime.

Offline Dowding

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A report about anti-war thugs and their tactics and motivation...
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2003, 05:24:09 AM »
Quote
"down with this sort of thing"


LMAO! Who was holding that one? A couple of Catholic priests by any chance? Did they have a sign saying 'Careful Now' to go with it? Were there any railings nearby? :D
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline bounder

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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2003, 05:27:13 AM »
Yes, definitely inspired by Father Ted! I was just waiting to see one that read "Careful Now".

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2003, 05:44:15 AM »
Bounder and Dowding, when will the anti N Korea demonstrations take place?

Offline bounder

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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2003, 05:50:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Bounder and Dowding, when will the anti N Korea demonstrations take place?


Hortlund, do try to make sense. This is a thread about the London Demo.

Maybe you should start another thread.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2003, 05:59:53 AM »
I'm simply poiting out the hypocricy in your actions.

Offline bounder

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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2003, 07:23:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
I'm simply poiting out the hypocricy in your actions.


Could you be more specific?

I'm not saying I'm not a hypocrite, I think most people are in some form or another, but I just don't see how

"Bounder and Dowding, when will the anti N Korea demonstrations take place?"

is pointing out the hypocrisy of my actions.

Please illuminate me.

I was merely refuting the jerusalem post article as best I could with my own experiences, and perhaps unfairly casting aspersions on the motives of the author.

If you would like to rebut my refutation, please do so. I will be very happy to engage in debate with you if that is what you want.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2003, 07:50:05 AM »
Well, the way I see it you are out protesting against the upcoming war against Iraq for some reason. The exact reason escapes me, so maybe you could start by saying exactly why you are opposed to a war with Iraq.

Anyway, you are out protesting against a war against Iraq because...what? War is bad? Innocent civilians might get killed?

Along comes N Korea, a communist dictatorship fully on par with ex USSR...here is a dictator that starves his own people so he can aford more weapons. For some unknown reason N Korea starts to threaten the entire region with nuklear war.

Now one might expect more demonstrators. Because war is bad...innocent civilians might get killed etc.

But I dont see any demonstrators protesting against the N Korean desicion to start manufacturing nukes again, no protests against the threats of nukes, no protests at all.

No human shields are flocking in Seoul to prevent the N Koreans from nuking it...nothing.

So when the US...a highly respected democracy... is preparing to rid the world of an insane dictator and his wmd's, there are alot of protests. But when an insane dictator with wmds are threatening his democratic neighbors there are no protests at all.

Why is that?

Offline straffo

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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2003, 07:55:11 AM »
Found this pict lovely :)

Offline bounder

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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2003, 09:27:04 AM »

Bless you Hortlund.
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Well, the way I see it you are out protesting against the upcoming war against Iraq for some reason. The exact reason escapes me, so maybe you could start by saying exactly why you are opposed to a war with Iraq.
[/b]

Maybe I could, maybe I could start with why your acccusation of hypocrisy doesn't stand up.

You say you don't know why I went on the demonstration.

Then you say because I am not demonstrating against N. Korea, I am a hypocrite.

That is not internally consistent. I reiterate, please try and make sense Hortlund, it makes everyone else's life easier.

Quote
Anyway, you are out protesting against a war against Iraq because...what? War is bad? Innocent civilians might get killed?
[/b]
nope, but carry on firing shots in the dark anyway
Quote

Along comes N Korea, a communist dictatorship fully on par with ex USSR...here is a dictator that starves his own people so he can aford more weapons. For some unknown reason N Korea starts to threaten the entire region with nuklear war.

Now one might expect more demonstrators. Because war is bad...innocent civilians might get killed etc.

But I dont see any demonstrators protesting against the N Korean desicion to start manufacturing nukes again, no protests against the threats of nukes, no protests at all.
[/b] that's because the right to public assembly is severely restricted in N.Korea.
Quote

No human shields are flocking in Seoul to prevent the N Koreans from nuking it...nothing.
[/b] That would be because of a) The N Koreans have no right to protest, and b) flights from PyongYang to Seoul are in pretty short supply for your average N.Korean protester.
Quote

So when the US...a highly respected democracy... is preparing to rid the world of an insane dictator and his wmd's, there are alot of protests. But when an insane dictator with wmds are threatening his democratic neighbors there are no protests at all.
Why is that?

Because the insane dictator has surpressed the right of free public assembly in his country. I would've thought that was obvious, even to you.

So to sum it up I'm a hypocrite because you don't know why I demonstrated my opposition to a war with Iraq, and I didn't demonstrate my opposition to the aggression of Kim Jong-Il?

I demonstrated my opposition to my Government's position on the potential conflict in Iraq. I wasn't demonstrating anything else.

If N Korea was a pluralistic, open society like mine, and was still threatening S.Korea, then I would hope many N.Koreans would be demonstrating against there government too.

How does this make me a hypocrite Hortlund? Or can anyone else explain what he means, cos I still don't get it.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2003, 09:36:46 AM by bounder »

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2003, 12:48:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bounder

How does this make me a hypocrite Hortlund? Or can anyone else explain what he means, cos I still don't get it.

It would seem you missunderstood what I meant.

If YOU protest US policy, or if a German protests against US policy WHY are you not protesting N KOREAN policy?

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2003, 01:12:02 PM »
Hortlund: Bounder and Dowding, when will the anti N Korea demonstrations take place?

 Why would people urging their governments' not to invade another country - Iraq - responcibility for which they will bear, have to protest N Korea?

 Is there an imminent invasion by N Korean troops?
 Are Bounder and Dowding north Korean citizens responcible for the actions of that governemnt?

 Or did you mean they should protest their governments' invasion of N. Korea? I am sure such protests will materialise once US/UK invasion plns of that country take shape.

 There may be good reasons to protest whatever cause but there is no direct analogy to accuse anyone of hyppocricy.


If YOU protest US policy, or if a German protests against US policy WHY are you not protesting N KOREAN policy?

 Becasue he is a citizen of an ally and a NATO member and actions of our countres are linked? Why do americans expect germany - but not N korea or Russia - not to sell weapons to Iraq? For the same reason.
 We are linked by moral obligations to some people but not others.

 miko
« Last Edit: February 21, 2003, 01:15:03 PM by miko2d »