Author Topic: Warp Ram Death (Read 845 times)

Furious · « **on:** February 21, 2003, 05:05:52 PM »

2 different, but similar situations.

1. Saddled up 400yds back on a co-E yak. vreeep (warp). Half a second later I am sitting in his cockpit. Collision. Death for me.

2. Killing Ju-88 trio on its way to CV. Kill the lead plane, but he doesn't bail. He just rode it in. Meanwhile the other to are doing that spastic dance the drones do while the lead plane spins out of control. I back off waiting for the to settle down, the lead hits the water, vreeep(warp), I am sitting in the Ju-88's bomb bay.

Neither of these collisions are forced, nor are they avoidable.

HT, could you please add some sort of code to the collision routines that would check for physically impossible changes in direction and/or location by the bandit prior to assigning damage?

F.

Kev367th · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2003, 09:26:52 AM »

Not just that, would like to know how in a collision one guy dies (always me) and 9 times outta 10 the other guy goes on flying like nothing has happened.
I know people say it's in the FE, but surely we all have the same FE, or is it more related to latency, if so that means that guys with good net connections are always gonna be the losers.
Avoid collisions? Try that in a massive furball with loads of cons swirling around you!
Most are accidental.

Flittt · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2003, 09:53:22 PM »

Guy who has the most lag wins
I imagine (but by all means do not know for sure) that the guy w/ good connect sees the collision first

hitech · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2003, 08:54:06 AM »

Flitt, that is not the case, lag has nothing to do with who collides in the collision, what you see is what you get. The resone most people think that they are the one to always collide, is that when they other person does, they don't attribute it to him colliding.

The only effect lag has on a collision would be who is awared the kill,not who took damage. when 2 people collided at exactly at the same time.

HiTech

batdog · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2003, 09:12:21 AM »

Baaa HT you being all sneaky and stuff. All that matters to these guys..myself included is that the lag DOES effect who gets the kill and who does not. At least thats what I thought and I just read in your reply?

Anyway... that bomber warping thing sure is a wierd thing, I've seen that.

Kev367th · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2003, 09:34:50 AM »

Still don't get it HiTech. How can you have a collision where one plane loses say a wing and the other plane flies off as though nothing has happened?
Are you saying that one persons FE sees it as a collision whereas the other persons FE doesn't?
"When two people collided at exactly the same time", is there other way? Can one person collide say 5 secs after another, I guess we have just rewritten the laws of physics.

I suppose it all comes down to the fact that NO-ONE has ever given a satisfactory explanation as to why in a collision the person with the high speed connection is generally the one to die, and how the other plane just flies off into the sunset.
We all use the same FE so both FE's should see the collision or is there a flaw somewhere?

Does this fall into the category of people shooting through rocks and trees at you because their FE doesnt "see" the object, but your FE does?

Batz · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2003, 10:06:47 AM »

Quote

We all use the same FE so both FE's should see the collision or is there a flaw somewhere?

Who told you this? If they did they lied to you......

FE = Front end

Thats what you see, not what the rest of us see.

If you are still confused do a bbs search as this question has been answered to death.

Furious · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2003, 11:50:52 AM »

Kev,

What you see on your screen (your pc and monitor=FE) is never what anyone else see on theirs.

The difference is the internet induced lag. This is a difference in vector/position information due to the time it takes that information to be sent across the network.

The collisions on occur on your FE, because on the bogeys FE he may not have been close enough or moved to avoid. If you see the collision on your machine, unless it is a direct HO, then most likely you are the only one to have collided.

It has to be this way. How pissed would you be if you took damage from a collision you never saw or manueverd clear of.

F.

Kev367th · « **Reply #8 on:** February 28, 2003, 09:00:38 AM »

So in effect I'm right.
If my FE sees a collision and I die and the other pilot gets a kill. By the time his FE catches up (assuming lag here) there was no collision as I am already dead.
So having a high speed low lag connection is a disadvantage.
This would also explain why some poeple seem to be to shoot through ground oblects while in tanks.
I always assumed (big mistake) if i was hiding behind a big rock on Pizza I would be OK, only to find rounds coming right through it.
Based on your explantion in his FE the rock might not even be there.
Must be a way to ensure that everyone is seeing the same thing.

Batz · « **Reply #9 on:** February 28, 2003, 09:29:55 AM »

His "fe doesnt catch up" he could be d300 above you on his fe or he shot you and exploded on his fe.

Connection makes little difference.

hitech · « **Reply #10 on:** February 28, 2003, 09:33:03 AM »

Kev you still are assuming that the plane you hit flew straight, it could have pulled up and missed you while you flew straight threw him. Basicly you are always playing against some ones past moves i.e. .1 to .5 secs ago depending on your lag. It realy is imposible to get rid of the lag, think of this simple outline. You roll your plane, that roll is sent to the server (.1 secs), the server sends it to another player (.1 secs). So he will see you roll .2 secs after you started to roll your plane. This is the same with the position of the aircraft. It is always some time behind where the player realy is.

Now in a collision neather side has an advantage at colliding. They will both see a plane that is needed to be avoided, if they avoide it, they do not collide, if their plane hits the other plane as they percieve it, there plane takes damage.

As to the shells of other tanks going threw buildings, thats nothing to do with lag,it for frame rate resons, I chose not to collide bullets from other players on your FE. Hence you see your bullets hit stuff, but the other people don't.

HiTech

Innominate · « **Reply #11 on:** February 28, 2003, 09:42:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Batz
Connection makes little difference.

not quite.

Your connection affects the difference between what you, and the other player see. So while the 800ms ping player turned a half a second before impact, the 80ms player hits before seeing the 800ms player turn. The worse someones connection is, the bigger the difference in what you and them will see.

The same kind of thing appears all over AH. In general, a low-ping connection is better when you're stuck on defense, while a high-ping connection is better when you're in an offensive position.

With a low ping, people tend to see what you do relativly quickly, which is good for last minute maneuvers. It also gives players more time to avoid you closing on thier six.

With a higher ping, other players don't see anything you do for a moment, which means you can't wait till the last minute to maneuver out of someones way. It also means that someone who maneuvers at the last minute while you're closing fast on them, will have a split second less time to react. (This is often how you tend to get hit with otherwise "impossible" shots)

Your ping, as well as packetloss and ping stability have a very large effect on gameplay. Wether you're an LPB or HPB, there are advantages and disadvantages.

J_A_B · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:26:10 PM »

It is possible (not easy, but possible) to victimize slow unmaneuverable targets (like big bombers) using the collision code.

Of course it's usually easier just to shoot them, but I imagine if you're flying a plane with poor firepower or bingo ammo then it may be useful.

J_A_B

Batz · « **Reply #13 on:** February 28, 2003, 04:06:38 PM »

"little" difference and "no" difference dont mean the same thing. I said "little".

2 guys with the same ping time:

A collision could occur and still 1 guy would get the damage while the other 1 doesnt "see" the collision and lives.

While giving a "general" explanation on collisions theres no need to confuse the novice any more then necessary.

Kev367th · « **Reply #14 on:** February 28, 2003, 06:35:12 PM »

O.K. I understand that.
So why is it in a collision it's always me that dies, unlucky? Or is it a slight penalty for having low ping/lag times?
E.g a few nights ago I was chasing a Yak, I was about d75, slightly higher on his 6. He suddnely just pulled straight up and of course I couldn't avoid him. Result, I die he flies off into the sunset with no damage.
This seems to be typical of what happens to me in massive furballs.
Thanks for all the explanations it has been confusing me for some time now.