HT protects AH!!

[suppo-]

The point of my post IS to get more information.  I'll count myself in the novice dweeb category also.

Above all....I sense something a little strange about about this whole post.

If Hi-Tech really communicated that....I just wanted to see it myself and get some more explanations like a couple of the folks above.  Surely,  expressing frustration one time might be acceptable, but, implementation of a policy such as this is impossible.

Lets not make too big of a thing over this.

Hi-Tech, we have some bright days ahead...perhaps you can jump in here and get us all back on track.

[hitech]

My apologizes to jochen.
 It’s really has nothing to do with lumping all Finland guys together. But in the online world we are a fairly small group of people. The odds of anyone from Finland knowing itmo, via email, or in person increase ‘s greatly with there local and language.

The alpha stage release’s are fairly relaxed, lot’s of files are not crypted some are even in ASCII.
What it comes down to is the likelihood of an alpha version getting into the wrong hands would increase if I released a version to Finland players. I really think the Finnish flight sim crowd is a great group of players. They have done great things for WB in the past, helping get it in magazines and such. But at this stage of AH development I prefer to error on the side of caution.


As to the freehost support’s I’m not on a witch-hunt, Just because someone tried or checked out the freehost doesn’t mean much to me. But people helping the propagation of the freehost can have a huge impact on online gaming.

I feel so strongly about how the freehost concept can impact the economics and viability of online gaming and that it’s just simply wrong, that I must take a strong stance against it.


HiTech

[DRAHN]

Welp, I guess I'm gonna get flamed for this, as some won't mind and some I'm probably gonna offend, I apologize to those who get offended.

On taking a stance on principles, fighting for what ya believe in, or just plain standing up for what you think is right or wrong, I can totally respect that.

I totally sympathize with Jochen, as he and all other Fins, who don't know itmo, didn't do anything wrong to begin with, but just happen to live in the wrong part of the world at the wrong time, have just been flamed for something they didn't do. That burns me to no end!

On security issues, I understand HT's caution and don't blame him for that at all, at this point of development. But, the in the future, I would suggest that decisions based on security issues such as this be made secure. In other words, one might think before one says. Not a slam, just a reminder.

DRAHN

[suppo-]

Thanks Hi-Tech,

I'm sure that helps us all understand the relevant considerations behind the statement.   I'm sure we all look forward to a successful beta release and won't blow the alpha testing concerns out of proportion.

[Jochen]

Huge SIGH of relief!

 

My apologizes to jochen.

No problem, I understanded your point and motives fully after I read your reply. I think I bit overreacted when I see the original quote.

 

It’s really has nothing to do with lumping all Finland guys together. But in the online world we are a fairly small group of people. The odds of anyone from Finland knowing itmo, via email, or in person increase ‘s greatly with there local and language.

That is true and your assumption was justified, after all Warbirds community in Finland is not too big. But number of those who actively promote freehost's cause is not nearly as big as that.

Recent article in Finnish Pelit Lehti (games) magazine actually feel somewhat sorry about this whole situation because according to them, Warbirds is in best shape it has ever been.

 

The alpha stage release’s are fairly relaxed, lot’s of files are not crypted some are even in ASCII.
What it comes down to is the likelihood of an alpha version getting into the wrong hands would increase if I released a version to Finland players. I really think the Finnish flight sim crowd is a great group of players. They have done great things for WB in the past, helping get it in magazines and such. But at this stage of AH development I prefer to error on the side of caution.

Hmmh, I see your point now and I must agree. The only thing is that it might be pretty hard to know to who take to alpha phase. Maybe I overrected because I saw only mention of Finnish players. For what I have heard, russian and other east european players are threat of same magnitude. First cheat cases I encountered in Warbirds were from russian players.

Oh well, I kind of hoped to be part of Aces High development (since I missed the opportunity last time) with my small effort but as the circumstances are what they are, I cannot do anything but sadly accept the situation  

Maybe later perhaps? Or even short peek to alpha testers area? Yeah, I'm pretty desperate  

 

I feel so strongly about how the freehost concept can impact the economics and viability of online gaming and that it’s just simply wrong, that I must take a strong stance against it.

Well, if my work and income (not to speak about time and love devoted to project) depends from this action, I would certainly do the same.

Man, I just read your post in that freehost newsserver and replies you got.

I must apologize for all that crap you got from there. I would have never believed that I will saw things written like that by my fellow countrymens  

What makes me feel even worser is that for brief time I gave my support to itmo. I can see now that I was very wrong indeed.

Hitech, thank you for your quick reply, it made me feel much better. I think I can actually sleep well next night  

 

I totally sympathize with Jochen, as he and all other Fins, who don't know itmo, didn't do anything wrong to begin with, but just happen to live in the wrong part of the world at the wrong time, have just been flamed for something they didn't do. That burns me to no end!

No sweat. Now the Hitech has explained what it's all about, I agree with him. If it is neccessary for future of game, it must be done. I personally didn't feel like being accused or anything but I was just, well, suprised. After I investigated freehost newsgroups later today I found that Hitechs worry is real.

For HTCI's view Finland is pretty near russia and with population of 5 million rather insignificant so decision is easily justified.

Hmm, how fast I can change my nationality? Any green cards available ASAP?

------------------
Obfr. jochen 'Stern von Afrika' 2./ Jagdgeschwader 27 'Afrika'

[Windle]

Hell guys, it's just Alpha. Just be patient for a few more weeks and wait for the Beta release. If HiTech decided not to let anyone in the lower 50 states test for the same reason I'd be in the same boat I'm in now - waiting for the Beta release. Unless you guys were dropped from the Alpha testers list just chill for a couple more weeks till the Beta comes out.

It's all good man!  

[This message has been edited by Windle (edited 08-16-1999).]

[HaHa]

Here is something I've found interesting with WB.. and I've actually seen it occur in many other "online only games".

When CK(WB) first came out it was free/fun and was changing literally every week. Dramatic enhancements would come at least once a month keeping the game "new" to us CK veterans. All of this occured when it was beta.

Then CK was converted to WB and a new "graphics engine". The new game was tremendous and fun just like the old one however it seemed to take an awfully long time for the new WB to come out and it definitely didn't seem feature friendly.

Months passed and the next version came out.. ships! new planes! better modelling.

Months passed and another version.. planes.. more modelling?

MANY months passed and more planes.

MANY MANY months passed and IM acquired WB (boo)..

A year passes and the "junkers troop carrier is implemented."

Year(s) pass and nothing happens.. a few new planes/modelling blah... The announcement of WB 3.0 FINALLY with new changes. (vapourware? years from now?)

You guys want to know why FREEHOST has been developed and is used by people ? People are getting sick of paying for something that is nearly the same as it was 2 years ago. Online games are NOT a novelty anymore and you can't charge through the roof just so that someone can "shoot down" someone else.

[DRAHN]

Jochen, glad to see ya have an open mind on the subject, I <S> ya for that.

Just in case me point was missed, the statement of not including the Fins, in my opinion should never have been made publically. Once the decision was made, and BTW I probably would have made the same one, it should been kept behind closed doors. To voice a opinion is one thing, but that statement sounded like an denouncement of Fins in general. I'm reasonably sure it wasn't, but that's what it sounded like to me. Unlike our current head of state here beleives, words mean something. We speek'em, we fight for'em, we fight over'em, we send people to jail because of them, so when we do speek, we need to be sure we know what we are saying and be ready to take the credit or the criticism.

On chilling out, I live in Texas, born and raised, "Native Bubba". Can't remember the last time it was under a 100. To chill would be a blessing, so if anyone has any extra beer they wanna get rid of please forward ASAP to the following address:
P.O. Box BR549
Hicksville, Texas
No zip code cause we ain't big enough yet.

If I was really HOT about this, and I'm not, I'd be in HT's office right now, saying this eye to eye, nose to nose. He's only an hour and a half away.

Again, I beleive the statement was just an error in judgement on his part. The decision was I beleive, the right one to make.

DRAHN

[Raptor]

My apologies to the Finns.  I wanted the quote to be against the supporters of Freehost and I didn't mean for it to be directed towards people in Finland.  I am not a discriminator by any means.  I'm not that type of person.

I just frown on what has happened and hope it doesn't have a negative impact on online flight sims.

Rap

[Jochen]

 

My apologies to the Finns. I wanted the quote to be against the supporters of Freehost and I didn't mean for it to be directed towards people in Finland. I am not a discriminator by any means. I'm not that type of person.

Don't sweat it, I know you didn't direct your comment against any nationality but to against some people. After I saw what some finns said to Hitech in their newsgroup, I really felt bad, I mean bad. If anyone else had had read those post, you can see why folks are angry.

I guess all communities have their black sheeps...

 

I just frown on what has happened and hope it doesn't have a negative impact on online flight sims.

Roger that! When I first heard about freehost I thought it would be terrific. Well, now we know the thruth. How naive one can be?


------------------
Obfr. jochen 'Stern von Afrika' 2./ Jagdgeschwader 27 'Afrika'

[bod]

What irritates me is all this moral mumbo jumbo. Moral issues has abselutely nothing to do with this. They are bad, we are so nice with high moral standards kind of talk in an international community is way off, way off. International law, human rights etc does exist, but there exist no such thing as an international moral standard.

Just think of all the starved-to-death children in third world countries all our $2 per hour would have saved have we given our money to them, instead playing games in front of a PC!!  This is where moral will lead us, so keap moral out of it.

Finland, as a member of the EEC, is bound to have accepted international copyright laws. It is pretty clear to me by now that by running a free host, you voilate international copyright laws. However, it is also pretty clear that no laws are broken by itmo when he made his host, or by continuing developing it.

Either do something about it, sue the ones that are running free hosts, or just leave it be. In any case at least stop whining about those "terrible ugly demoralized scumbags" or whatever.

Just my $0.02  


Bod

[Horn]

 

What irritates me is all this moral mumbo jumbo.... They are bad, we are so nice with high moral standards kind of talk in an international community is way off, way off.

Either do something about it, sue the ones that are running free hosts, or just leave it be. In any case at least stop whining about those "terrible ugly demoralized scumbags" or whatever.

Just my $0.02


Bod

Bod, you hit the nail squarely on the head.

Build a game with the best of AW and the best of WB and you'll likely not have to worry about anything, too much....but

If someone were really smart in IMOL, they would figure out how the Freehost works, debug the problem issues, box it and sell it! Complete w/ docs, etc.

Sounds like opportunity to me.

DH

Oh, yeah, and I'd hire that Itmo guy, too.

[This message has been edited by Horn (edited 08-16-1999).]

[2flie]

Now that I learn more about FreeHoax I think HT is right!

For those of you that don't know. FleaHost is a Java program that acts as a server for the WB front end. It would allow a person and a few of his friends to play without paying I-whatever-they-call-it-now for game service.

The problem is that game copyrights, in fact most computer programs are copyrighted against reverse engineering. That is in essence what this "Itmo" guy did. And since the game and the server architecture code are copyrighted, it makes it illegal in the US to distribute, possess, or utilize pirated software, whether it's illegally copied or reverse engineered.

So, the proper thing would be to keep anyone that is assisting in the development and distribution of FreeloaderHost from having access and opportunity to do the same thing to AH. Given the choice, I'd rather pay to play AH than play WB on FreeHoser!

Carrot, I apologize about my reply in the O'Club thread...bro, I didn't know.

------------------
2flie
Suicide Operations Group
"SOG!"

[bod]

 

If someone were really smart in IMOL, they would figure out how the Freehost works, debug the problem issues, box it and sell it! Complete w/ docs, etc.

Sounds like opportunity to me.

Of course. If you cant beat them (for whatever reason) then join them. WB boxed with a MAX 32 user host, somewhat crippled, is bound to be a bestseller, and you can charge premium for it, $50+ (anyone heard of Quake 3 ?). You have to make sure of course that it is not legal to charge for connections. Still, the "original" wb host with hundreds of players would attract many people, and maybe even more than now by running large well organized events, and a focus on *service*.

If i where imol or ien, and considering their current shape, this is what i would do.


But, what do i know  


Bod

[leonid]

Hitech:

Does that mean that if I say I think freehost is cool, I'm a supporter?  I'm not sure what you mean exactly.