HT protects AH!!

[Downtown]

Wasn't it the Finns who unleashed the monster in the newest version of "The Thing" the John Carpenter movie about the monster in Antartica?

The cool thing about that movie was that I was stationed in Shemya Ak. and we would pop that movie in the VCR when ever a real good blizzard hit.

I guess it was the Norwegiens.

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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG

[Downtown]

By the way, if you look down in the corner of this post you see the little "ip logged" thing.

That and your e-mail addy are how you block people.

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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG

[-cman-]

Bod Wrote:
"What irritates me is all this moral mumbo jumbo. Moral issues has abselutely nothing to do with this. They are bad, we are so nice with high moral standards kind of talk in an international community is way off, way off. International law, human rights etc does exist, but there exist no such thing as an international moral standard.
Just think of all the starved-to-death children in third world countries all our $2 per hour would have saved have we given our money to them, instead playing games in front of a PC!! This is where moral will lead us, so keap moral out of it."

I have to strongly disagree.  There ARE universal moral truths.  All major religions  and philisophical systems contain some central truths; i.e. murder is bad, theft is wrong, etc.  Theft IS wrong.  It is wrong to take food from another person's mouth.  The freehosters take food from the WB (AH, or whatever) developers' mouths.  The freehosters get a free ride from the sweat of the developers' brows.  This is wrong.

Is it on the same scale as murder, genocide, etc?  NO.  But is still not nice and not "moral" whether you are from Finland, Kazahkstan, Congo or wherever.

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-cman-
The Dweebs of Death
"Death before dishonor,
often just moments
before."



[This message has been edited by -cman- (edited 08-17-1999).]

[hitech]

All depends on what you mean by cool leonid.

I would define a supporter as someone who thinks and states or continues to take action implying that that the freehost or anything similar (done without the original author's consent) should continue.

HiTech

[This message has been edited by hitech (edited 08-17-1999).]

[bod]

cman:

I understand what you mean, but i don't think you understood my meaning, maybe due to my bad english.

To put it short:

In my view it is low moral standard to sit and whine about how bad and immoral other people are. Just me saying this (which is totally self-contradictory), shows how stupid it is to use moral.

You punish people for what they do, not how they think.


Something like that  


Bod

[Cabby]

Can't blame ya, Hi-Tech.  I read the FREELOADER NG, and the slamming HT took in there was unbelievable.  Itmo and his camp followers will cheat/hack/steal any code they can get their hands on, and justify themselves with any inane excuse they can come up with .  They even steal from each other.  I wouldn't join their little hack-fest if they paid ME $2/hr.  Personally, i wouldn't be caught dead associating with those people.

What is funny is the Russian hackers ripped off some stuff from Itmo and he was whining about it, heheh.

My only comment in regards to that turn of events:

Mess With The Bull, You Get The Horn

Cheaters Suck,




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cabby ++44th SOS++

[leonid]

HiTech:

Okay.  I thought what itmo was able to do w/o any documentation was pretty cool.  Especially when a lot of his implementations were what many gamers wanted anyway.  It certainly was an embarrassment to IMOL/iEN, who have been very slow in coming up to speed with WB's ongoing development, yet have documentation and the resources.

It isn't cool to steal someone's intellectual efforts, especially something as involved and developed as WB.

So, I guess I'm middle of the road.  The status quo needs a good kick in the tush at times to allow for new horizons, but at the same time people shouldn't be taken advantaged of.  And company's are, I have to say, nothing more than people.  Regardless of the greed of capitalism    

[Horn]

An interesting thread (except for the "universal morals" guy--he obviously doesn't read newspapers or get out much...here's your assignment: explain "ethnic cleansing" as it relates to Serbian "morality").

Seriously, though, Leonid's "good kick in the tush" for the status quo is right on. Right or wrong, this itmo fella found an enormous loophole in the host software, the law, and exploited it--and lo and behold, peeps started flocking to it.

I submit to you HiTech that if no one was interested in the FreeHost idea, there would be tons less griping. If agreed, then what peeps seem to be angry at is potential loss of revenue. If that is in fact the case, why doesn't IMOL (or whoever they are today) move to "absorb" this idea?

Just wondering<tm>

DH

[This message has been edited by Horn (edited 08-18-1999).]

[hitech]

Of course there's interest in this idea. I could generate a lot more interest by making a full blown host totaly free.But people wanting somthing for less is always an interest of consumers. That type of interest is not the question you need to look at from mine or IMOL's perspective. Neither of us is here to simply let people have fun, what we are here for is to exchange what people want in way of fun,for them giving us money.

The simple fact is the only resone for HTC or IMOL to make either H2H or a limited multiplayer host version would be to attract more people or increase play on the service.

If you wish to debate the pro's and con's of how many people in a free enviorement can best increase revenue I'd love to here your view's on that question.

HiTech

As to what itmo is doing is legal or not that will be settled in the court's either with itmo or some othere similar situation.

My opinion is itmo would loose.

[Horn]

 

The simple fact is the only reason for HTC or IMOL to make either H2H or a limited multiplayer host version would be to attract more people or increase play on the service.

Exactly my point. Just observing the Quake example (granted, they are generally not the same kind of customer)--folks are participating in small "LAN versions"--many in preparation to play with the general on-line community (the Big Dogs).

It would seem to me AH could have the same potential: small groups participating in practice, buff runs, squad flight, or whatever, in preparation for the "big" game. Charge for the FE and the host, limit the features available if needed.

Profit through the shrink-wrap, make it easier for peeps to learn and use and practice. Use registration/upgrades to track your shrink-wrap user group. Probably even experience an increase in revenues on the massive multiplayer side as peeps migrate to the "Show."

HiTech, you know you could do a better job with Freehost than these folks slowly learning the ropes you have already mastered. Perhaps the freehost phenomenon could be incoporated among the bells and whistles of a feature-rich release of AH???

Might even create better quality pile-its, who knows...

Just sayin<tm>

DamnedHorn

[hitech]

ID is a box game producer,Producing a sellable box version is not just simply putting a little polish on an online game.It would take just as much time to produce that box product as it does to produce a solely online version. On a full priced box product the devoloper normaly recives $6 to $10 a box.Do the math that's a fair amout of copies to make any revenue. But the basic fact is we want to concentrait on the online side of thing's. Getting distracted from the task at hand is one of the major problems we had at ICI, and is somthing we wish not to repeat at HTC.We want to do one thing (an online flight sim) and do it better than anyone else. The only way I know of doing that is not to lose focus.

What we are planning is  4 to 8 multiplayer play, with a match making service free on our web sight.

HiTech

[Rolo]

HT is being generous with regard to the amount earned by box developers.  Let's say a developer gets a 25% royalty and a game retailing at $39.99 wholesales for $24.99.  Then deduct 10% for MDF ($22.50).  Deduct the costs of goods at $4/unit (18.50).  Whoops, I forgot about marketing and publish overhead, but we won't deduct those because some publishers don't deduct the costs of goods.  Thus the developer gets $4.63/unit.  

Of course, we're talking about the initial bout of sales.  Pretty quickly the retailers demand that the wholesale price be dropped (or they'll return the merchandise).  This is why you see Falcon 4.0 selling for $15 less than a year after release.  This results in an even smaller royalty for the developer.  

If a developer generates an average of $3/unit.  He's doing great.  Combine this with the fact that most games sell less that $25 units and you begin to realize that life ain't so pretty for developers.  

In fairness, most developer get an advance on royalties that generally provides the developer with compensation that exceeds earned royalties.  Nevertheless, selling the box and giving the online game away for free is highly unlikely to provide sufficient revenue to make a great online game.  Moreover, there's little incentive for the developer to continue to update the game (gotta move to the next box product).

Rolo

[Bad Omen]

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Quote:What we are planning is 4 to 8 multiplayer play, with a match making service free on our web sight.
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That would be great!
The one thing Warbirds was missing was the ability for 2v2 or 4v4 practice.

If AH has this, our squad will be happy campers!!!

[-kier-]

Hitech sayeth:

 

As to the freehost support’s I’m not on a witch-hunt, Just because someone tried or checked out the freehost doesn’t mean much to me. But people helping the propagation of the freehost can have a huge impact on online gaming.

I posted on AGW the reason for my trying FH for specifically this reason- there are those that are curious, there are those that are frustrated with aspects of the game, or in my case, there are those that are no longer able to connect at all to iEN. I do understand the ethical side of the argument, and don't play FH.

What is disconcerting is how quickly the witch hunt does start; the Finns, ACA'ers, etc. I know how emotional this community gets about the game (WB's, and soon AH), but failure to recognize there are reasons some tried FH beyond simply wanting to cheat, freeload, or otherwise wreck the community are very short-sighted.

Thank you Hitech for softening on the tone regarding FH. I realize it is your livelihood your protecting, so I understand the emotions behind your posts.

*disclaimer* I am not supporting the use of FH.

[indian]

HITECH I have one quick thing to say which is not to be disrespectfull to you or your views I thought about this for awhile after reading you response to jochen. I live in Grapevine Texas until June of this year I had no idea Warbirds was created and based here or IMOL was here either. I have played Warbirds of and on for a year now and do have an online account. The thing I have a problem with is Finnland has over a Million people and the Warbird community is very small there, Grapevine has 36000 and an even smaller community, I wouldnt have know any of the people from IMOL if I saw them and my wife insured some of them(just found that out). I agree with you about saving you investment and here is the one quick thing that turned long. Charge the freeloaders if they dont sign up to play for a year 80 bucks sound good to me. Im new to this community and hope not to get any wrong blood flowing towards anybody from anybody. So protect your game and charge em charge em good.

Please dont take this as a flame, no harm intended just want to point out the world is small but not bellybutton small as we think.

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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon

http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon