Author Topic: America Admits Torture Deaths  (Read 3246 times)

Offline Virage

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Offline Dowding

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America Admits Torture Deaths
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2003, 10:04:09 AM »
Torture is kindness. War is Peace. Ignorance is Strength.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline SOB

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America Admits Torture Deaths
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2003, 10:05:32 AM »
I'm trying hard to feel bad for 'em, but it's just not happening.


SOB
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Offline gofaster

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America Admits Torture Deaths
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2003, 10:09:32 AM »
"engaging in culturally humiliating practices such as having them kicked by female officers."

That's why I support women's athletics.  Soccer develops strong quads and calves.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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America Admits Torture Deaths
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2003, 10:13:44 AM »
The funniest part of that article is the last paragraph:

Quote
President Bush appeared to encourage extra-judicial solutions in his State of the Union address in January when he talked of al-Qa'ida members being arrested or meeting "a different fate". "Let's put it this way," he said in a tone that appalled many, "they are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies."


Any non-idiot plainly knows that Bush meant "dead" as in killed in battle.  You can't read that to mean "arrested and then meet a different fate."  I wasn't aware that death in battle was an extra-judicial solution during war.  I'm glad that was cleared up for me.

And frankly, the only appalling thing about Bush's statement was its terrible delivery style.  It made me wince.

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Offline hawk220

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America Admits Torture Deaths
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2003, 10:18:58 AM »
those thousands of people on the WTC suffered blunt force trauma too.. paybacks a squeak, ain't it?

Offline Dowding

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America Admits Torture Deaths
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2003, 10:28:03 AM »
Your average Taliban soldier had nothing to do with WTC and was just some illiterate farm-boy with an AK-47.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Pepe

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America Admits Torture Deaths
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2003, 10:38:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Your average Taliban soldier had nothing to do with WTC and was just some illiterate farm-boy with an AK-47.


That would gladly empty his magazine on any Western he can possibly see.....to begin with.

Offline Dago

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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2003, 10:46:48 AM »
Quote
Your average Taliban soldier had nothing to do with WTC and was just some illiterate farm-boy with an AK-47.


I suppose your average SS soldier had nothing to do with the death camps.  When you blindly serve a system of leadership that supports terrorism, you are not innocent.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline SOB

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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2003, 10:49:08 AM »
I also doubt they chose to interrogate an "average taliban soldier".


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Offline Curval

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America Admits Torture Deaths
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2003, 10:55:24 AM »
Payback is a squeak...but its no excuse for torture.

You never get any reliable information from torture...it has been proven time and time again.

I'm sure they have very effective truth serums out there now...forget torture and get reliable info that way.

I doubt this is true anyway...I certainly HOPE it isn't.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Dowding

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America Admits Torture Deaths
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2003, 11:11:34 AM »
Quote
That would gladly empty his magazine on any Western he can possibly see.....to begin with.


Really? I saw a program by a Western journalist who went 'undercover' in Afghanistan shortly before the war. He talked to Taliban soldiers at a position overlooking a check-point. They weren't supposed to talk to him and he was breaking the rules if his visa by doing it, but they were friendly and hospitable. They not once emptied their magazines, into him or anyone else.

Not quite the heathens we're led to believe. The system was corrupt and barbaric, but the average soldier was just that.

Quote
. When you blindly serve a system of leadership that supports terrorism, you are not innocent.


You think Afghanistan was some uniform den of terrorists and their supporters? It was deeply tribal, with different warlords changing sides many times to suit their own personal agenda. It was all about power and money. Many found themselves on the wrong side of the conflict post-WTC, but six months earlier they might have been Northern Alliance.

There is a huge difference between your average Taliban soldier and the Al Queda operatives, allowed to operate out of Afghanistan.

Quote
I suppose your average SS soldier had nothing to do with the death camps.


A more accurate analogy would be "your average German wehrmacht soldier had nothing to do with the death camps". Or are all German armed forces personnel guilty of war crimes by association?
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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America Admits Torture Deaths
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2003, 11:14:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
I doubt this is true anyway...I certainly HOPE it isn't.


I wouldn't be surprised if these two men were tortured to death.  The question is whether such torture was sponsored or approved of by the United States government, and I doubt that.  Frankly, if you're going to use torture as a matter of policy, you don't go around changing death certificates from "heart attack" into "homicide."  It just doesn't make any sense.

Certainly it appears that criminal and abhorant behavior occurred here.  I can't believe the flippant attitude some of the posters exhibit toward torture, especially when you consider that the consequences of torture (loss of moral authority, an enemy more likely to fight to the death rather than face torture, lack of reliable information) in this case probably outweigh the benefits.

What annoys me is the Independent's lame and transparent attempt to link these torture deaths to Bush Administration policy through questionable evidence such as a misinterpreted sound bites.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline Curval

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America Admits Torture Deaths
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2003, 11:20:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I wouldn't be surprised if these two men were tortured to death.  The question is whether such torture was sponsored or approved of by the United States government, and I doubt that.  Frankly, if you're going to use torture as a matter of policy, you don't go around changing death certificates from "heart attack" into "homicide."  It just doesn't make any sense.

Certainly it appears that criminal and abhorant behavior occurred here.  I can't believe the flippant attitude some of the posters exhibit toward torture, especially when you consider that the consequences of torture (loss of moral authority, an enemy more likely to fight to the death rather than face torture, lack of reliable information) in this case probably outweigh the benefits.

What annoys me is the Independent's lame and transparent attempt to link these torture deaths to Bush Administration policy through questionable evidence such as a misinterpreted sound bites.

-- Todd/Leviathn


Well put...
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Ripsnort

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America Admits Torture Deaths
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2003, 11:21:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying

What annoys me is the Independent's lame and transparent attempt to link these torture deaths to Bush Administration policy through questionable evidence such as a misinterpreted sound bites.

-- Todd/Leviathn


SHACK! (Thks Funked)