Author Topic: Ok, at the very least..... (Read 809 times)

lazs · « **on:** March 27, 2001, 08:20:00 AM »

couldn't we have all planes available at a field till all the hangers and all the fuel are gone? I mean.... Can anyone concieve of a "real life" situation where bombers would be able to take off but not fighters? Certainly the guys at those fields aren't dumb enough to stack up every fighter in a big pile in those two fighter hangers? Also, So long as there's fuel, any plane should be able to take off.

More realistic, less gimicky and phony, better gameplay, easy fix. seems pretty win win to me.
lazs

Midnight · « **Reply #1 on:** March 27, 2001, 08:30:00 AM »

lazs... more realistic? What? An endless suppy of fighters for you to go up.. kill.. get shot down... go up.. kill... get shot down.. etc. ?

Just quit your whining. play the way it is. That's how it is. You see me whining about missions anymore? No. I quit that subject. Not enough care about it. So do us a favor.. quit yours.

------------------
Midnight
13th TAS[/i]
midnight@13thtas.com

"You tell them I'm coming.. And Hell's coming with me!" -Kurt Russel Tombstone

Apache · « **Reply #2 on:** March 27, 2001, 08:33:00 AM »

I agree Lazs.

Cobra · « **Reply #3 on:** March 27, 2001, 08:44:00 AM »

You're right, I can't conceive of any "real life" situation where fighters can continually spawn and re-up after being shot down.

If that's the case Lazs, then each field should get only a limited number of aircraft. After all in "real life" no airbase can hold an unlimited and infinite amount of planes. So once that allotment is shot down, no more aircraft. That should solve the downed hangar issue.

Cobra

lazs · « **Reply #4 on:** March 27, 2001, 08:44:00 AM »

midnight.. do as you please, i will do the same. The fighters would not be an "endless stream" as you say. A feild would still be destroyed just in a more realistic manner.

I also think it would be a win for the strat "guys" like yourself. If the fields could send up planes longer then the action would increase and people would wittingly or unwittingly participate in "strat" or "missions" instead of hiding from each other or gangbang B&zing a couple of helpless cons in fast planes.
lazs

Revvin · « **Reply #5 on:** March 27, 2001, 08:46:00 AM »

Sorry Lazs have to disagree with you on this one, as Midnight pointed out its just as gimmicky to watch the same guy spawn endlessly at the field you are bombing everytime you shoot him down. This happened to me two nights ago where a P51 made a few poor passes on me before saddling right on my 6, I managed to shoot him down after a few very long bursts from my tail gunner and he went down, as I made my bombing run I watched him in my norden spawn straight away at the runway and come back to get me. When I fly I try to fly in a historical fashion so I make my runs at the operating altitudes I've read about usually between 25-28k and my bomb runs I make a proper egress from the target and not flip the plane around and game the fact that the norden needs no settling time so the buffs only defense against fighters like this who constantly respawn is to fly 'stratto buffs' I don't like to do it but you can surely see where the frustration comes from for the buff pilot so alot resort to this tactic.

I mentioned this in another thread about buffs, perhaps we could have parked vehicles that all need to be destroyed as well as hangars before a certain plane is disabled at that field, it makes more targets for buffs which would make us happy and also it would require alot more work to disable either fighters or bombers at a field which would keep you fighter jocks happy..how about trying that?

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #6 on:** March 27, 2001, 08:52:00 AM »

Lazs,

Take a second and think about what you are asking. The hangars currently rebuild in 15 minutes. The fuel bunkers take 30 minutes.

What is worse, not being able to launch from a field for 15 minutes, or not having any fields available with more than 25% fuel?... pretty much endlessly.

AKDejaVu

Apache · « **Reply #7 on:** March 27, 2001, 10:18:00 AM »

I guess it depends on which side of the fence you're on. Do you capture fields or prevent the capture of fields. I know I would rather fight than watch from the tower.

Wanker · « **Reply #8 on:** March 27, 2001, 10:23:00 AM »

Quote

Certainly the guys at those fields aren't dumb enough to stack up every fighter in a big pile in those two fighter hangers?

Two words: Pearl Harbor

Lazs, HTC gave you your own arena for furballing. What more could you ask for?

lazs · « **Reply #9 on:** March 27, 2001, 02:36:00 PM »

pearl harbor? I wasn't aware that any operational ac were in hangers and that as soon as both hangers were destroyed they couldn't send up fighters. And wank... Ht didn't give me a furball arena that I know of. In fact... I never even asked for a furball arena. In fact... I have consistently stated that multiple arenas don't work.

I really don't see how it can be justified that a field could take off bombers but not fighters or how a field could be operational in every respect except that two buildings were no longer weathertight and so now.... the field can't send up fighters? And that doesn't seem contrived?

Sure, you can respawn but if you land you can't take off again if a couple buildings are down? If you land from another field you can't take off?

If you think about it.....If you are a strat player in AH then you are not playing for any simulation value. You are not interested in simulation so much as gaming. You might as well be playin backgammon. OTOH, the "mindless" furballers are simply simulating fighting other ac with the best flight models and gunnery/damage models available today.
lazs

lazs · « **Reply #10 on:** March 27, 2001, 02:42:00 PM »

oh, revvin... sorry but you don't disagree. I have posted that i wanted "revetments" for fighters and splash damage from bombs and realistic bombing accuracy. As you say... more targets for bombers and more realistic fighter availability. less gimicky etc. but.... That would be perhaps a little complex. This idea would be much easier and accomplish much the same hence.... "at least" i didn't say it was a perfect solution or even the best available only that it would be an improvement and easily done.

And deja... the percent of fuel thing is just as gimicky and silly as the rest. Why would you send up what fighters you had with only 25% fuel in theory, endlessly? If nothing else 25% can be from 20-75 gallons depending. Let em take off with 50 or 100% till there is no fuel left. that is just plain nitpicky on your part.
lazs

[This message has been edited by lazs (edited 03-27-2001).]

Revvin · « **Reply #11 on:** March 27, 2001, 03:13:00 PM »

But endless spawning of aircraft is gamey and gimmicky now if planes were allowed to fly regardless of what hangars you destroyed then its even more gamey and gimmicky, if this was the case then I would have no choice but to bomb spawn points to stop this happening either that or give buffs floating power-up balls that repair damage and refuel and re-arm the plane..but hey that WOULD be gamey eh?

I don't think placing parked planes on the sides of the runways as being too much to ask for, iEN managed to do it with the aged Warbirds code and HTC could take it a step further and tie these planes in with the availability of aircraft at a field. I don't expect to see them roll as players have to use up the last few planes, just have them as static objects that require destruction with hangars to disable either fighters or bombers at a field, next time you pass over a field look at the large spaces between targets such as acks, imagine those areas populated by parked aircraft, rows of bombers and fighters. I think this is quite achievable right now and could perhaps satisfy both sides.

Apache · « **Reply #12 on:** March 27, 2001, 03:34:00 PM »

Gamey?
From the Aces High Bomber operations manual:
Load bombs, fly to enemy field. Line up laser guided bombs on 2 targets, 3 at most. Drop bombs with pin point accuracy. Flight ops at enemy field disabled. Fly to next field and repeat.
Note: If large field, take 2 bombers.

lazs · « **Reply #13 on:** March 28, 2001, 08:23:00 AM »

Yep revvin apache hit it. All strat is gimicky. I too would like to see "revetments" but all I really asked for is that "at the least" fighters be able to take off untill all the hangers are down. That is not any more "endless" respawning" than what we have now...

Right now the bombers are the most gimicky part of the game, They are so concession ridden that they are embarassing. I don't know if they can ever be "fixed" cause if they were.... very few would be interested in flying em.

I think that eventually they will have to have huge area targets like cities that will affect the war without such a dramatic and instant effect on fighters in order to stop the animosity.

Right now... A good fight is happening and you look up. A lone bomber is 8-10K above everyone and allmost over your undamaged field... People say "gee I wonder what he will do" There goes the fighter hangers... You can go up and kill him but why bother? The real damage is done and he was on a sucicide mission anyway and will just "endlessly respawn".... Plus, there are only about 6 guys in the whole arena that enjoy attacking or even killing the current buff anyway. I'm not one of em.

Heck, I would rather see a "counter" for fighters and bombers. small field get's say 30 fighters and 2 bombers and a large one gets 60 fighters and 4 bombers... fighter or bomber ops closed when the counter hit's zero or the field is closed whichever comes first.
lazs

Mox · « **Reply #14 on:** March 28, 2001, 08:46:00 AM »

Lazs, Why does it matter I thought you'd be in the dueling arena!??

Mox

[This message has been edited by Mox (edited 03-28-2001).]