Author Topic: Need help from 109Gx experten! (Read 3544 times)

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #60 on:** March 24, 2003, 04:53:00 PM »

My 109G10 recomendations:
1 - Use 3x20mm. With gondolas you will still be capable of beat anything in the vertical plane and you will have a good chance to kill buffs in one pass.
2 - Rudder is a primary control for rolling, dont forget that.
3 - Use manual trim all the time.
4 - 75% fuel plus a DT will give you enough range for long CAP missions. You will easily traverse more than four quadrants climbing to 20k.

wetrat · « **Reply #61 on:** March 24, 2003, 05:34:39 PM »

A few of my 400+ films have high killing G10 sorties in them, but I don't really feel like sifting through them just because some guy doesn't believe me. Also, I just saw you say you packed it in with the 109's and are flying juggs... not motivating me to look through them

And mandoble... why the hell would you bother climbing to 20k in a G10? If there's any plane you don't need alt in, that's it.

beet1e · « **Reply #62 on:** March 24, 2003, 07:03:26 PM »

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Originally posted by wetrat
A few of my 400+ films have high killing G10 sorties in them, but I don't really feel like sifting through them just because some guy doesn't believe me.

I was afraid you'd take it like that!

It's not that I don't believe you, but you have to understand that a lot of guys are full of yap and post here about how they did this and that, but when asked to back it up with film evidence they suddenly go quiet. Look at this thread - well over 50 responses, but only TWO people have done what I asked in the initial posting, and sent films. I want films rather than words because then I can see how you did it. I would have thought that 10 kills in a G10 was exceptional, and that you would have given the .AHF file a distinctive name so you could find it easily in the future. Hardly seems worth keeping 400 films if you don't know how to find the one you're looking for.

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Rudder is a primary control for rolling, dont forget that.

Yuck, that sounds horrible! You're kidding me, right? I have 900 hours private pilot experience, and the thought of using rudder as the primary control for rolling makes me feel ill. Sure, the secondary effect of rudder (ie. too much) is a wing drop, but I hardly think of it as controlled flight. Is this something that just works in flight sims, or are you saying that real 109 pilots flew like this?

Anyway, folks. I went back to the P47D25. It works for me better than the 109G10, and I got 10 kills in my first two sorties. The elevator is MUCH more responsive, and the Jug does not "compress" in a dive. The .50 cals fly much better than 20mm cannon, and certainly better than the 30mm cannon, so it's easier to bring them on target. I like to chase a buff formation, and just as he starts turning he will be preoccupied with the turn, and in any case it would be more difficult to shoot me in a turn. Also, more of the buffs will be visible, and I can get a nice deflection shot. The 109G10 is not good at that, and it is necessary for the pilot to get much closer - greatly increasing the risk of being shot by the gunners. The drawback with the P47 is of course the climb rate, but it's a good hunting plane. This morning I had 20 kills without loss - until I got sucked into diving on an ackstar...

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #63 on:** March 24, 2003, 07:27:04 PM »

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Originally posted by wetrat
And mandoble... why the hell would you bother climbing to 20k in a G10?

It is crystal clear in my post, just an example of range with DT + 75%.

beet1e, I'm not kidding, with 109, rudder is far more important than ailerons when scissoring, you will bank the plane right and left mainly with the rudder, 109 ailerons are only averagely "effective" at low speeds, but still you will be in big dissadvantage (roll) against most planes using only ailerons.

ccvi · « **Reply #64 on:** March 24, 2003, 08:15:50 PM »

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Originally posted by wetrat
And mandoble... why the hell would you bother climbing to 20k in a G10? If there's any plane you don't need alt in, that's it.

The g10 can boom'n'zoom from below

wetrat · « **Reply #65 on:** March 24, 2003, 08:43:54 PM »

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Originally posted by ccvi
The g10 can boom'n'zoom from below

That's what I was implying

And beetle, 10 kills in a G10 isn't really exceptional, except for on maps like pizza and trinity. On a map with good, low alt fights a G10 can just rack them up. That's until some dork in a niki comes in 10k above the fight, of course.

I'll start sifting through my films while I eat, and when we get to the next rotation of trinity. The one thing that stops me from getting 10+ in a G10 more often than anything else is the gas mileage.

beet1e · « **Reply #66 on:** March 25, 2003, 04:09:42 AM »

MANDOBLE, wetrat - comments noted!

By the way, I haven't abandoned the 109G10. It's a worthy buff killer, but the P47D25 is better IMO for the reasons I gave.

I still think the 109G10 just doesn't have the control response to mix it with those planes which definitely do - 190D9, Spit... but I am happy to go into a gaggle and use stealth - zooming up to pick off cons that haven't seen me, or going in pursuit of something like a P51, and catching up to him as he zooms. This is where the 109G10 excels like no other.

wetrat - something you said yesterday that I'd like to comment on. I'll try to send you a private mail.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #67 on:** March 25, 2003, 05:15:28 AM »

When I flew the G10 more a year or so ago I could get 600 yard deflection shots with the 30mm only using a few rounds. Now I'm not saying its easy to do that but it can be done if you get a feel for the gun.

And I have no why you would to take a 109 to 20k, they are best in the 5k to 15k area. The high alt environment make them stall to easily and spits begin to outclimb you.

I'm sad you gave up on the 109.

As for the rudder roll thing he has a point. With the AH fm rudder use really speeds up rolling rate plus the 109s stability at low alt lets you do a sort of half snap to get a killing deflection shot. I pretty much always 0rtb when I loose rudder in a 109.

GScholz · « **Reply #68 on:** March 25, 2003, 07:23:45 AM »

Hehe Grunherz, I still have a 1-0 K/D on you in the 109 ... or any other plane for that matter!

Still remember your ch1 message: "lol you!"

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #69 on:** March 25, 2003, 07:29:57 AM »

I love getting shot down by my bbs buddies...

Yea I rember that sortie - got into the evil "MUST KILL THAT GUY" mood vs the Typhoon and ignored my six for too long.

beet1e · « **Reply #70 on:** March 25, 2003, 07:32:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
When I flew the G10 more a year or so ago I could get 600 yard deflection shots with the 30mm only using a few rounds.

... and the film is where?

I'd be very surprised if I ever saw that done. The cannon rounds simply don't fly well enough to make that viable - not just the deflection, but getting a hit at that range. In WB, for example, you had to close to less than 200 yards to stand a chance of landing cannon on target from a 109. OK, different game but - Erich Hartmann's method was to close until the bogie filled his windscreen, and then fire. Gabreski even makes the same point about the P47 - the key was to get very close. So to land a cannon round from a 600 yard deflection shot sounds like game-reality porkage. That, or an extreme fluke.

109G10 good for killing buffs - they are often at high alt hence the need to get to 20K.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #71 on:** March 25, 2003, 07:49:57 AM »

I dont film my fights. I do have witnesees though for my best ever shot - ask animal if he rembers that mustang I shot of his tail some time ago. Was a 90 degree 30mm snapsdhot shot at well over 600 yards.

The distance in the diagonal when I fired was close to 1000 yards and it only took 2 rounds. Now of course there was luck involved but I did specifically aim that shot.

Even I filmed it you wouldnt learn anything, more than any otrher gun the 30mm requres you get the feel for it. Even a few weeks of not fling the 30mm I get very very bad with it. In other words you have to practice.

GScholz · « **Reply #72 on:** March 25, 2003, 07:52:33 AM »

Lol, yeah that happens to me too. Usually the bastidge drags me all the way back to his home field and I have to dodge flak and other bastidges to get him. Always ends the same way, but once in a while I drag him down with me.

When I saw you zoom up after that Tiffie I thought "oh yes, another one bites the dust". Haven't seen you in the MA after that. You don't fly much, or we just having bad luck?

The 108 won't fit. My 109 is too small.

beet1e · « **Reply #73 on:** March 25, 2003, 08:18:26 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I dont film my fights. I do have witnesees though for my best ever shot - ask animal if he rembers that mustang I shot of his tail some time ago. Was a 90 degree 30mm snapsdhot shot at well over 600 yards.

The distance in the diagonal when I fired was close to 1000 yards and it only took 2 rounds. Now of course there was luck involved but I did specifically aim that shot.

Even I filmed it you wouldnt learn anything, more than any otrher gun the 30mm requres you get the feel for it. Even a few weeks of not fling the 30mm I get very very bad with it. In other words you have to practice.

GRUN - I maintain that in real life, the scenario you depict would have been highly unlikely. One of my old WB buddies (now gone to IL2) once described the AH guns as "a cruel joke", and it's events like the one you describe that make me realise exactly what he means. How much did a 30mm round weigh ??? I'd love to know how the 30mms were used in the war, and how many were used successfully in 1000 yard shots.

Wlfgng · « **Reply #74 on:** March 25, 2003, 09:02:51 AM »

I doubt a 30 mm (potato) would be worth a damn after travelling that far! but up close, it's a killer.

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I would have thought that 10 kills in a G10 was exceptional, and that you would have given the .AHF file a distinctive name so you could find it easily in the future. Hardly seems worth keeping 400 films if you don't know how to find the one you're looking for.

I dunno.. I never name mine and have prolly thousands.
I simply never take the time... I play, quit... then go on with life.