Author Topic: "Today I weep for my country"-Byrd  (Read 2160 times)

Offline X2Lee

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Re: No more of an embarrasment than Bush is to many Americans Yeager.
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2003, 06:15:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by weazel
Gee...just think, Bill Clinton was ready to move on Iraq several years ago...did he get any support from the republican party or were they too busy obsessing about his cock and a stained dress to bother?
...couldn't be. :rolleyes:



LOL clinton was a coward from day 1, when he decided to start a war it was to get folks minds off his cock.

Offline Nash

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2003, 06:17:17 AM »
If it took a war, it shows beyond a doubt how fixated some folks were with said cock. :D

Offline Vermillion

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2003, 07:19:03 AM »
I'm from WV, I hate Byrd's senile antics, and I vote.

Unfortunately, the only way Byrd will lose his position, is when he dies of old age.  And even then, the democratic machine will probably freeze his body, and thaw him out for special occaisions.

WV effectively is a one party state.  No joke.

The really strange part is that the people of the state are very conservative.  But because of the history here, are very labor oriented (the coal history), which means Democrats.

I know it doesn't make sense.

Offline muckmaw

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2003, 07:47:44 AM »
Let's see, where to start...

Weazel-

I agree Byrd has every right to speak his mind. Why is he doing it now, though? We're on the eve of war. People are at risk, on both sides...soldiers AND civilians. As I write this, I can see combat patrols over my hometown. The first ammendment protects Mr. Byrds right to speak out. Checks and Balances makes it his duty. But there is a time and place for everything. How would the soldier in the field feel if an elected official of the country he is defending is spouting off as Byrd did?

I'm not Partisan. I vote for whom I believe in. I voted for Clinton...the first time. I do not subscribe to a party. I believe partisan politics are terrible. Though we need a multiparty system, the fact that most politicos simply follow the party line to promote their and their parties agenda is sickening to me, whether they be Dem or Rep.

Erlkonig-

I can say whatever I want. If I feel like spouting off and being angry, I can. That's the beauty of the 1st amendment. And you have every right to tell me to STFU. Don't you think you can be a little more creative, though? Tell you what. Get some crayons and paper, write some decent remarks, and get back to me. I'll be here.

As for BGB. He is my friend, and my squadmate. He is emotional. He is honest and true and you always know where you stand with him. Thats what makes him so endearing. I'd rather have an honest man who speaks his unpolished feelings than someone with a PhD whom you cannot trust.

Offline Modas

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2003, 07:50:09 AM »
:D

I rate that one a 9.  Excellent use of the "F" and MF word.  Could've used that one a little more.  I'm rather fond of it myself   :D

I agree.  Its started.  The time for debate and the anti-war demonstrations is over.  The decision is made and its time to cut the crap and support the troops.

When its over, you can go back to your political BS....

Good luck and Godspeed to the all the troops over there

Offline StSanta

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2003, 09:32:37 AM »
Hm, the guy says publicly what he believes. He represents the people that has voted for him.

And he is right in one sense; this incident has taarnished the US image around the globe. After 9/11, the world was behind the US. Now, the sympathy has drained away in big part due to Bush's poor handling and 'selling' of the Iraq war.

And that is the crux of the problem here; the current administration has made a very bad case for war and has made several miscalculations - one being going through the UN without knowing the outcome would be support for war. Then lack of evidence.

What I am saying is that the US might be right. But they've done a piss poor job outta showing that they are. PR wise it has been an utter disaster. Which is a real shame really; nothing is as annoying as knowing you are right yet being unable to convince others of it. For the average guy on the ground, understanding of the total situation here is almost nil. They go with gut feelings and are greatly influenced by the friends around them. Ifmost are anti war, oh, they gotta be right, so I am anti war too. It's simply group dynamics.

And Byrd is also commenting on the great shift of doctrine. Now, pre-emptive attacks where before there was a response to violence or other incidents. Instead of being the defender, now the US is the attacker (or PERCEIVED as such in most of the world).

Think it is good that there is a political system where the entire spectrum is covered. I disaggree with muckmaws suggestion that Byrd should shut up, although I feel compassionately that he is right with regards to the timing of Byrds comments. But it is a democracy. Bet I know what muckmaw WON't be voting :).

Offline muckmaw

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2003, 09:37:52 AM »
It's not like I have a choice, Santa. I don't live in his district.

But I don't vote along party line either.

I vote for whom I believe in and agree with.

And I agree that it took great courage to speak up from an position where you know your going to be attacked, which is what Byrd did. However, I question his timing, and more so, his wording.

I simply despise talking head politicos that only give lip service based on which party they belong to, be they republican or democrat.

Speak your mind, when the time is appropriate. Be honest, and don't be a puppet to your party, and you'll get my vote.

Unless your name is Hillary...:D

Offline Hangtime

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2003, 09:42:42 AM »
Santa, america is not willing to sit around waiting to get hit again, and again, and again... before we take action.

world 'opinion' will never santion pre-emptive action.

i had a guy once stand in front of me and say 'i'm gonna pound yer face in and cut yer balls off'. i was certain he would. so i swung first. and hard. and i made sure he couldn't ever threaten me again.

thats all we're doing.

and diddly 'world opinion'.

;)
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline muckmaw

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2003, 09:44:24 AM »
If I was'nt MAW, I'd be signing up with FDB, just to hang with Hangtime. <>

Offline CptTrips

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2003, 09:50:34 AM »
I really don't have the patience to listen to the moralizing of a man that was a card carrying member of the KKK.

Wab
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Eaglecz

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2003, 09:55:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Santa, america is not willing to sit around waiting to get hit again, and again, and again... before we take action.
 


its only question of time... i do not have any hasitation it will happen again...

coz you are sooo good

Offline Hangtime

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2003, 09:58:55 AM »
Quote
its only question of time... i do not have any hasitation it will happen again...


i also have no doubt we will take some blows.

and i have no doubt who will be left standing proud when it's all over.

go diddly yerself eaglecz.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Vermillion

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2003, 10:20:00 AM »
Quote
Hm, the guy says publicly what he believes. He represents the people that has voted for him


I'm one of his "constituents".  And I can tell you that he is not representing the people that voted for him.

WV is one of the most conservative, traditional, and pro-military portions of the US.  Support for the war is way up in the 80%+ range in this state.  We're what you Euro's would call, backwoods illiterate redneck hillbilly/cowboys. ;) (joking with you StSanta... sorta hehehe) If you don't own a gun or believe in God when you cross the border, we'll issue you a weapon, a Bible, and schedule a proper revival for you ! ;)

Byrd is playing to the Democratic party, its own very far left liberal wing, and the basic "Anti-Bush" propaganda.

Offline crowMAW

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2003, 11:09:00 AM »
Our troops are in action now, so this will be the last comment I make on this subject.  I support our troops and hope that they can achieve their mission quickly and safely.

I am not ashamed of my country. I am not ashamed to be an American.  

I am also not ashamed to say that I am neither Republican nor Democrat...I am a Libertarian.  Like Muck, I vote for the most qualified person, which has meant Reagan twice and Bush Sr twice (who in my opinion was probably one of the most intelligent and best presidents this nation has ever had).

I also cannot say that I respect the politics and political shenanigans of Byrd.  I personally would not vote for the man.

But I will say that I am ashamed of our President and the way he has represented me and my country.  He has manufactured a crisis rather than responded to one.  And as my right as an American I will do everything that my one voice and one vote can do to make sure this idiot does not have another opportunity to further damage the reputation of my country.  A reputation that I will have deal with as I travel abroad and that this nation will have to overcome in the future in order to become respected again. (Flame away...as I said, I will say no more and will not even be back to view this thread or any other on this subject)

What Byrd said was right.  And he never said he was ashamed of this country.  Rather than basing your conclusion on sound bites from CNN, read the whole speech:

The Arrogance of Power

I believe in this beautiful country. I have studied its roots and gloried in the wisdom of its magnificent Constitution. I have marveled at the wisdom of its founders and framers. Generation after generation of Americans has understood the lofty ideals that underlie our great Republic. I have been inspired by the story of their sacrifice and their strength.

But, today I weep for my country. I have watched the events of recent months with a heavy, heavy heart. No more is the image of America one of strong, yet benevolent peacekeeper. The image of America has changed. Around the globe, our friends mistrust us, our word is disputed, our intentions are questioned.

Instead of reasoning with those with whom we disagree, we demand obedience or threaten recrimination. Instead of isolating Saddam Hussein, we seem to have isolated ourselves. We proclaim a new doctrine of preemption which is understood by few and feared by many. We say that the United States has the right to turn its firepower on any corner of the globe which might be suspect in the war on terrorism. We assert that right without the sanction of any international body. As a result, the world has become a much more dangerous place.

We flaunt our superpower status with arrogance. We treat UN Security Council members like ingrates who offend our princely dignity by lifting their heads from the carpet. Valuable alliances are split. After war has ended, the United States will have to rebuild much more than the country of Iraq. We will have to rebuild America's image around the globe.

The case this Administration tries to make to justify its fixation with war is tainted by charges of falsified documents and circumstantial evidence. We cannot convince the world of the necessity of this war for one simple reason. This is a war of choice.

There is no credible information to connect Saddam Hussein to 9/11. The twin towers fell because a world-wide terrorist group, Al Qaeda, with cells in over 60 nations, struck at our wealth and our influence by turning our own planes into missiles, one of which would likely have slammed into the dome of this beautiful Capitol except for the brave sacrifice of the passengers on board.
 
The brutality seen on September 11th and in other terrorist attacks we have witnessed around the globe are the violent and desperate efforts by extremists to stop the daily encroachment of western values upon their cultures. That is what we fight. It is a force not confined to borders. It is a shadowy entity with many faces, many names, and many addresses.

But, this Administration has directed all of the anger, fear, and grief which emerged from the ashes of the twin towers and the twisted metal of the Pentagon towards a tangible villain, one we can see and hate and attack. And villain he is. But, he is the wrong villain. And this is the wrong war. If we attack Saddam Hussein, we will probably drive him from power. But, the zeal of our friends to assist our global war on terrorism may have already taken flight.

The general unease surrounding this war is not just due to "orange alert." There is a pervasive sense of rush and risk and too many questions unanswered. How long will we be in Iraq? What will be the cost? What is the ultimate mission? How great is the danger at home? A pall has fallen over the Senate Chamber. We avoid our solemn duty to debate the one topic on the minds of all Americans, even while scores of thousands of our sons and daughters faithfully do their duty in Iraq.

What is happening to this country? When did we become a nation which ignores and berates our friends? When did we decide to risk undermining international order by adopting a radical and doctrinaire approach to using our awesome military might? How can we abandon diplomatic efforts when the turmoil in the world cries out for diplomacy?

Why can this President not seem to see that America's true power lies not in its will to intimidate, but in its ability to inspire?

War appears inevitable. But, I continue to hope that the cloud will lift. Perhaps Saddam will yet turn tail and run. Perhaps reason will somehow still prevail. I along with millions of Americans will pray for the safety of our troops, for the innocent civilians in Iraq, and for the security of our homeland. May God continue to bless the United States of America in the troubled days ahead, and may we somehow recapture the vision which for the present eludes us.

Offline muckmaw

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"Today I weep for my country"-Byrd
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2003, 11:26:10 AM »
I did not know you were a Librarian, Crow.

Can you explain that Dewey Decimal system to me sometime?:D