Author Topic: Vicious Dog  (Read 2507 times)

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2003, 01:57:25 PM »
Not an American Pit Bull Terrier, an American Bull Terrier.

Pit Bull Terrier and Staffordshire Terrier are the same breed.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2003, 02:04:03 PM »
So...which is it again?

American Staffordshire Terrier:



Bull Terrier:



Staffordshire Bull Terrier:



AKC does not identify a breed as "American Pit Bull Terrier" but the UKC does:

sand

Offline Curval

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« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2003, 02:19:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by squelch_19
There isn't anything in this dogs nature that isn't in any other dogs nature, except it likes to fight.

Show the dog respect, train it, keep it fed, ect...you have a well-natured dog that won't attack for no reason. Just like with any other breed.


Except it likes to fight....that says it all mate.

The Pit, in Pit Bull, is in reference to the fact that the dogs were bred to fight other dogs, or other animals in betting pits.  They were bred to be the best at it by breeding the most agressive aspects of other breeds into them.

They do attack other animals for no reason...I've seen it.  It is in their nature.  

If your pit bull kills my dog it is killing a member of my family.  I would in turn sue your ass...big time...then kill your pit bull.

If you are suggesting that my friend didn't treat his dogs well, you are mistaken.  His daughter has limited use of one of her arms because a pit bull snaped and bit her.

Nothing you can say will change my mind that we need to breed these dogs out of existance.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline squelch_19

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« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2003, 12:14:10 AM »
Sandman, APBT. I just got tired of typing APBT over and over. I assumed everyone knew what I was talking about. I am not too fimiliar with the AKC, but the UKC was created just to include the APBT...which was the first dog it registered. The AKC wouldn't recognize the breed.

Curval, when are you going to notice that ANY dog could have done that to your friends daughter? American Pit Bull Terriers were not bred to be human-aggressive. Maybe you don't know it, but there is a big difference between dog-aggression and human-aggression. That is one of the main reasons APBT's do not make good guard dogs.

I am not saying that your friend was a bad owner or that he mistreated the dog.

I didn't meet that dog, but there is NOW WAY you can tell that the dog showed absolutely no sign of human aggression at some point prior to the attack. I have been working with dogs way too long to buy that. Every breed alive has its fair share of unstable dogs, and they must be killed before they do attack someone. Not any entire breed, just the unstable ones within the breed. As with any dog with enough size to do as much harm as the APBT, you have no choice but to kill the unstable ones.

The problem is that most people who get one of these dogs have no idea what they are doing. Cougar mentioned a 'Pit Bull' killing another dog. But had the fence been high enough and deep enough, and/or the owners attention been in the right place, this wouldn't have happened. As for your friends daughter...had you friend realized the signs that the dog was unstable, then this too would have been avioded. Yet the dog gets blamed instead of the owner.

There is nothing wrong with the APBT. It is the owners who do not know what they are doing that is giving it a bad rap.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2003, 12:19:33 AM by squelch_19 »

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2003, 01:15:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Yeah, owners can make a bad dog. But in the case of the pitbull, I disagree. They were bred to kill.

Let me explain it to you this way. You take a tiger cub from birth from a tiger in captivity. You treat it like a household pet, and bring it up well. Would you trust this animal as a household pet? You wouldn't because you know that instinctively, that tiger is a killer and could eat your kids. Animals are instinctive, they are animals, that is how they are. Some dogs attack, but when a pitbull attacks he kills, it's in his blood.

Now a pitbull can be fine, but anything can kick in this instinct. Kids walking home from school who get in a fight, dog snaps. Domestic quarrel, dog snaps. It can be a number of things.

It's not the dog's fault, it's in his blood. It's instinct. And I don't care how good of a trainer you are, you can't change that.

Those of you who think "it's not the poor dog, it's the owner, if it had a loving owner it would be different"  well, you're living in a nickelodeon fantasy world.

The pitbull terrier can be fine one day, snap the next. It was bred a killer, and that's what it is.
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline squelch_19

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« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2003, 01:23:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by squelch_19

I didn't meet that dog, but there is NOW WAY you can tell that the dog showed absolutely no sign of human aggression at some point prior to the attack. I have been working with dogs way too long to buy that. Every breed alive has its fair share of unstable dogs, and they must be killed before they do attack someone. Not any entire breed, just the unstable ones within the breed. As with any dog with enough size to do as much harm as the APBT, you have no choice but to kill the unstable ones.

 

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2003, 01:25:19 AM »
Every pitbull is unstable
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline squelch_19

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« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2003, 01:31:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by squelch_19
Every breed alive has its fair share of unstable dogs, and they must be killed before they do attack someone. Not any entire breed, just the unstable ones within the breed. As with any dog with enough size to do as much harm as the APBT, you have no choice but to kill the unstable ones.

There is nothing wrong with the APBT. It is the owners who do not know what they are doing that is giving it a bad rap.

Offline capt. apathy

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« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2003, 02:19:00 AM »
quote_________________
Every pitbull is unstable
______________________


sorry, can't think of a nicer way to put it- you are a fool.

I've owned many dogs of many breeds, and by far pits are the most stable and predictable, when raised in a stable environment.  the only unstable ones I've ever seen (and I've seen hundreds) where owned by unstable people, or wimpy guys who thought owning a tough dog would make them tough, but didn't know the difference between tough and mean.

I've had my current dog (pit/chow mix) for about 12 years.  got her when my youngest was 1 yr old. never any problem with unnecessary aggression. never any problem with her not using necessary aggression when the situation called for it.

when raised to be a part of your family (not some toy to take out once a week and impress your friends with how strong his bite is or how aggressively he will attack a lure or other dog) they are IMO the perfect dog to have around children.  they will let babies chew on their ears, and use them like a climbing toy and never growl or snap, they can tell the difference between an intruder and a visitor. and they can tell the difference between someone attacking your kid and kids rough housing around (something few dogs can do, you wont fool most pits by having someone pretend to hit you to see how they react, but if the situation comes up for real they are there right now.)

my dog greets everyone who comes to the door with a friendly wagging tail (only exception is she doesn't like cops, my opinion is they put out an attitude that they are in charge and expect to be obeyed, my dog sees this as my house and thinks I'm the only one who should be obeyed).  if she is out loose and meets you in the yard she will be extremely friendly.  

however if you enter my back yard by climbing a fence. she will run up on you fast without a sound, until she is close enough to nail you, then she will bark until I come out, or if you move she'll attack on her own.  the exception to this is children.  she just barks immediately and non stop from the time a child who doesn't belong here reaches the top of the fence.

so far she has actually taken down 2 intruders (one inside my home and one stealing tools from the shed). and as I said earlier never an unnecessary aggressive moment, she doesn't even require tranquilizers when the vet trims her nails(most large dogs do), even though she hates it she just whimpers because she knows I wouldn't let them do it if it wasn't good for her.

I never trained this dog (other than your basic house breaking, leash, heal, come, sit, stay) pitbulls will take to these behaviors naturally just like any decent person would feel about protecting his family, and her behavior is not at all uncommon for pits raised in a loving home.

There are only 2 reasons why I don't own a full blooded pit.
 
 bad publicity making people call the police every time your kid leaves the gate open and the dog walks to the front yard.

and she is primarily a house dog in the winter and chows are amazingly clean, but pure bred chows are generally too high-strung to be around children.


btw- the pit in the picture looks to be about 1/8 to 1/4 boxer.  good looking pup though, got a pic of him standing?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2003, 02:23:15 AM by capt. apathy »

Offline Cougar68

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« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2003, 02:21:24 AM »
Ok, you're willing to recognize the face that they're bred with the instinct to kill other dogs.  The jump from killing other dogs to attacking anything else isn't that far of a jump to make.

Yes, it's possible for a dog of any breed to snap and attack a human.  Hell, I once had a toy poodle go whacko on me.  If a dog is bred to kill ANYTHING, it's not a dog that I'll put in my household.  Again, I'm not saying they should be banned.  Just saying that i will NEVER be convinced that a pit bull can be just as safe around humans as any other dog.  Seen too many things go wrong.

"There isn't anything in this dogs nature that isn't in any other dogs nature, except it likes to fight."  That's the whole problem with the pits.  A dog that is bred to fight is like a hand grenade.  Every now and then you find a dud that never goes off.  But when one does go off, it gets messy.  Not even worth taking a chance on.  If the APBT is just like any other dog except it likes to fight, why would you want to own one?  Just because it likes to fight?  Because it makes you feel manly to own one of the mean bad pit bulls?  If you could get a different dog that would be exactly the same, w/out the instinct to fight.  I just don't get it.

Cougar

btw - Engine - I've never hung out on those boards, must be someone else.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2003, 02:28:30 AM »
Ugly arse dog imo.

Offline capt. apathy

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« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2003, 02:42:46 AM »
quote_____________
why would you want to own one?
__________________

the very attributes they where bred for (the ones that make them good at fighting) make them excellent dogs to protect and be a companion for your children.  

1. they are tough, sturdy and can take a lot of pain.  - kids hurt dogs, they climb on them, bite them, and pull their ears, step on their feet. it happens and if the dog is free to play with your kids unsupervised there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. the pits tolerance for pain makes them much less likely to lash out when the kid hurts them.

2. they are determined and relentless- would you want your dog to give up and run away if the person trying to hurt your kid or break into your home kicked it or yelled?

3. they won’t tolerate being dominated by another animal- this more often than not is what is labeled as the 'lust for a fight'. a pit sees himself as part of your family he sees another dog(or person) who comes in and tries to be dominant as an intruder, most don't have a problem with dogs that are non aggressive or submissive. (the exception is the ones raised by people who shouldn't have any dogs)

4. they are strong and capable of getting the job done. - you could have the most loyal and well trained Chihuahua you want and if I wanted in your house I'd just stomp on him.

5. not naturally inclined to be aggressive with people. - the fighting dogs are strong and quite capable of killing a man.  handlers long ago culled the ones who would attack their handlers or couldn't be controlled.

these are the things that where bred into them to make them good fighting dogs, they also make them a great companion for a kid.

btw the reason you hear of so many pit attacks is the police get called and you see it on TV every time a pit barks at someone.  little yappy dogs bite way more often than pits but most people would never think to call the news after being bitten by a 'tea-cup poodle'

Offline squelch_19

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« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2003, 04:48:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy
quote_________________
Every pitbull is unstable
______________________

btw- the pit in the picture looks to be about 1/8 to 1/4 boxer.  good looking pup though, got a pic of him standing?


Sorry about the quality...they were taken tonight.

Offline squelch_19

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« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2003, 04:49:27 AM »
.

Offline squelch_19

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« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2003, 05:21:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Cougar68

"There isn't anything in this dogs nature that isn't in any other dogs nature, except it likes to fight."  That's the whole problem with the pits.  A dog that is bred to fight is like a hand grenade.  Every now and then you find a dud that never goes off.  But when one does go off, it gets messy.  Not even worth taking a chance on.  If the APBT is just like any other dog except it likes to fight, why would you want to own one?  Just because it likes to fight?  Because it makes you feel manly to own one of the mean bad pit bulls?  If you could get a different dog that would be exactly the same, w/out the instinct to fight.  I just don't get it.


There is no such thing as a 'hand grenade' dog. They all give off clues when they are unstable.

Does it make me 'feel manly to own one of the mean bad pit bulls'? I do not own a 'mean bad pit bull'.

And don't confuse nature with personality traits. I can't get a different dog that would be exactly the same.

Read above.