Vicious Dog

[capt. apathy]

good looking pup.  he's gonna have a nice muscle structure if you get him enough exercise.

I hope you have a place where you won't have to chain him up (they really hate that and it is  a huge factor in contributing to unstable dogs).

still looks like a little bit of boxer in there, judging from the head shape.

[squelch_19]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
good looking pup.  he's gonna have a nice muscle structure if you get him enough exercise.

I hope you have a place where you won't have to chain him up (they really hate that and it is  a huge factor in contributing to unstable dogs).

still looks like a little bit of boxer in there, judging from the head shape.

Glad you like him. No Boxer, though.

He is an indoor pet, but there is a large fenced yard for him to tear around in. I'd give him away before I would chain him up. Besides what it does to the dog, most of the time they are chained up there isn't anyone there watching it. So it gets loose and gives people a reason to want the breed banned.

As for exercise...we are up to about 2 miles or so a day.

Article

[Raubvogel]

My dogs would hump him to death.

[squelch_19]

Originally posted by Raubvogel
My dogs would hump him to death.

Now I'll have to teach him "Check Six"!:)

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
quote_____________
why would you want to own one?
__________________

the very attributes they where bred for (the ones that make them good at fighting) make them excellent dogs to protect and be a companion for your children.  

1. they are tough, sturdy and can take a lot of pain.  - kids hurt dogs, they climb on them, bite them, and pull their ears, step on their feet. it happens and if the dog is free to play with your kids unsupervised there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. the pits tolerance for pain makes them much less likely to lash out when the kid hurts them.

2. they are determined and relentless- would you want your dog to give up and run away if the person trying to hurt your kid or break into your home kicked it or yelled?

1. That is the dumbest reasoning i've ever heard...you are really reaching

2. So I won't be able to pull him off of the child he is mutilating.

Pitbull good pets for children...I think i've heard it all.

[squelch_19]

Originally posted by Sixpence
1. That is the dumbest reasoning i've ever heard...you are really reaching

2. So I won't be able to pull him off of the child he is mutilating.

Pitbull good pets for children...I think i've heard it all.

If the dog is such a problem, then why are there so many rescue shelters just for the breed? They have been placing APBT in good homes for a long time...and they couldn't stay in business if the dogs they placed attacked people. The lawsuits would shut them down.

There is also a great many of this breed currently in therapy work (i.e. working with the elderly in nursing homes). How is that possible?

Like I said...it isn't the breed, it is the owners.

Wake Up!!!

[capt. apathy]

one thing about pits though.  I would never get one as a rescue situation.  I would never get one that was over 3 months old either unless I personally knew the previous owner for a good long time.

sometimes you can't fully unteach bad habits and they do have the kind of raw power that would make the consiquences of such a situation not worth the effort.

I wouldn't be likely to bring a teenager with a troubled past into my home to live with my children.  not that the kid doesn't deserve a good home. just not worth the risk to my children if his past life brings anti social behavior to my home.  

If I wouldn't take that kind of risk for a person I wouldn't take it for a dog.

It really saddens me to say it but pits that are taken from abusive or neglected homes need to be destroyed.

[rpm]

Originally posted by squelch_19
See what I mean about catching Hell from everyone???

But I've been there, done that.

The APBT is most likely the best dog to own if you have children. Just do a search of thier Temperment test scores if you don't believe me.

Thank God you are not MY Father! Do you have ANY clue how many people are mangled each year by this breed? Sure, you feel safe having one chained up or running loose in the backyard, but what about when the dog slips his collar or digs under the fence and runs free? These dogs are as close as you can get to a "Killing Machine". I see one on MY property and it's future is as bright as Saddam.

[squelch_19]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
one thing about pits though.  I would never get one as a rescue situation.  I would never get one that was over 3 months old either unless I personally knew the previous owner for a good long time.

I agree with you up to a point. People new to owning a dog and people that really don't know anything about this breed should stay away from it, period.

But if you are very familiar with the APBT, have a good understanding of its habits, and can regonize when it is going to do something stupid, then you can safely adopt from about anywhere. Caution is the key...you have to worry over its attitude for a long time.

If it is inclined to bite, you'll know it long before it becomes a problem.

As for killing the ones that have been abused...there is a thin line here. If you meet the above requirments and know what you are getting into, you may have a chance to save the dog. Depends on the dog.

But you HAVE to know what to expect!

[capt. apathy]

but what about when the dog slips his collar or digs under the fence and runs free?

the fence next door is old and rotten in places. over the last 12 years she has gotten out of the back yard more times than I can count.  usually she just goes and lays on the front porch and watches the world go by.  or if the neigbor is out doing yard work she'll wander over so she can be petted by someone different today.  the first time she was out when the mail man came over he was very worried.  now he stops on his route to pet her for a minute if she's out.

my electric meter is in the back yard and they can't see it with binoculars.  after several times of her being there and seeing me let him in, and him do his job then leave, she even lets him open the gate and come in the yard to read the meter (as long as he doesnt step on the porch or touch a door knob). she has excepted that it's ok to let him do his job and he's comfortable being around her.

most people who have a problem with pits have never met one or only one raised by an idiot.  as I've said before- over my life I've known hundreds of them. and not a single one that was raised in a normal home as a part of the family, was ever mean.  nor where the unstable or unpredictable. in fact they where by far the sweetest most loving and calm dogs around people I've ever seen.

also I've never met a person who had a personal account of a pit going crazy or a killing spree, that was raised by someone they knew well, who provided a loving home and didn't chain the dog or use 'special training' to make it attack more.

 anyone who I've ever talked to who knew someone with a pit who provided it a good home says the same thing "sweetest dog I ever met"

[squelch_19]

Originally posted by rpm371
Thank God you are not MY Father! Do you have ANY clue how many people are mangled each year by this breed? Sure, you feel safe having one chained up or running loose in the backyard, but what about when the dog slips his collar or digs under the fence and runs free? These dogs are as close as you can get to a "Killing Machine". I see one on MY property and it's future is as bright as Saddam.

You got lost. Re-read the post...take your time. I do not chain mine up...it is a house dog. So was the one I owned before. He died at age 15. Never bit anyone.

As far as being a 'Killing Machine'...Dobers, Rots, Sheppards....they kill people also. What scares you is that a 'Pit Bull' gets a whole lot more prime-time news.

Please read the post again.

[rpm]

I never said YOU chain your dog. I was painting a scenario, but I assume you do not allow the dog to roam the neighborhood. I'm sure your municipallity has some form of leash law and THAT is what I was refering to.
 I know people who own this breed and the dogs are sweet as can be...to the Owner. Thank God he DOES keep his on a runline. While helping him repair a lawnmower his suddenly made a charge at me (dog never made a sound) and hit the end of the line INCHES (no exaggeration) away from me. Not sure who was scared more, Me or the Owner.
 So when your sweet little Baby gets loose next and attacks someone for the first time lets see just how loving that Mailman and neighbor are then.
 Heck, let's just ship all of them to Korea. They are Dog lovers.

[squelch_19]

Originally posted by rpm371
I never said YOU chain your dog. I was painting a scenario, but I assume you do not allow the dog to roam the neighborhood. I'm sure your municipallity has some form of leash law and THAT is what I was refering to.
 I know people who own this breed and the dogs are sweet as can be...to the Owner. Thank God he DOES keep his on a runline. While helping him repair a lawnmower his suddenly made a charge at me (dog never made a sound) and hit the end of the line INCHES (no exaggeration) away from me. Not sure who was scared more, Me or the Owner.
 So when your sweet little Baby gets loose next and attacks someone for the first time lets see just how loving that Mailman and neighbor are then.
 Heck, let's just ship all of them to Korea. They are Dog lovers.

Have you read this entire thread? The post where I talked about unstable dogs? And the fact that dogs that are unstable will give off ealry warnings that some time in the future they are going to do something stupid?

They may not make a sound WHEN they attack...but they always show signs that they are LIKELY to. The owner of the dog you mentioned just didn't realize the hints...and you almost paid for it.

But at some point in that dogs life before it lunged at you, it has shown signs that this would happen.

[capt. apathy]

read this again.

also I've never met a person who had a personal account of a pit going crazy or a killing spree, that was raised by someone they knew well, who provided a loving home and didn't CHAIN THE DOG or use 'special training' to make it attack more.

when you chain a dog, any dog, it effects them. instead of being part of the group (dogs still need their 'pack') it makes them feel isolated and helpless.  they see the boundries of the chain as theirs and themselves as the masters of their domain.

the fact that the dog was stopped inches from getting you proves you where very close to invaiding his territory.

when you raise a dog to be part of your family he learns what his place in the family is and what behavior is expected of him.

dogs that are chained only when they are outside unsupervised devolope a sort of multiple personality.  when they are fre to be with their family they are sometimes very social but on the chain they become terirotial loners.  and often this carrys over to if they escape the chain under their own power.

most dogs should never be on a leash or chain regularly or for extended times unless their owner is holding the other end of it.

the only exception I've found for this is hunting hounds who you want to be agressive and rundown and kill prey.

that dog was owned by someone who didn't have the facilitys to care for the dog properly (ie. fenced yard) or the knowledge of what tying a dog does to them.

[rpm]

The fact that the dog stopped inches away ONLY proved he was on a STRONG restraint, nothing more. Had he been loose he WOULD have reached me. Yes, I was in his territory at his owners request. He apparently did not give a thought to what his place was in the family, unless his place was to randomly attack his owners guests. Something about me set this animal off, be it the smell of my laundry detergent, color of my hair, whatever. The Owner was shocked as well, he had the dog for years and never saw it behave in that manner, the animal was treated very well and never abused (so much for the Specialized Training theory). Thank God his town DID have an Animal Restraint Law.
 As far as the showing signs of attack..I'll make sure to bring The Pet Psychic along to examine every Pit I run across. The Dogs are mean, they have genetic disorders from inbreeding amongst other things. Do you even know what Purebred means?