Saddam

[Reschke]

Originally posted by -aper-
4. All countries in the world will be free from fear. UN will be a wealth that all countries in the world will participate.

I damn sure don't agree with that one. The United Nations was/is the biggest waste of time and life giving oxygen on the face of the earth. I sincerely wish that we were able to eliminate that rotten area from existence and from ever having a part in our world's history.

As for the other views you are living in a "free" country now and are entitled to your opinion of our form of government.  However we did not "elect" your current leaders who have just simply changed their outward appearance/belief from the almight Communist belief and you did not elect our leadership either. Thank you for your opinion. I truly hope the former Soviet Union can really be free from oppression and a criminally run government in the not to distant future.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Hangtime
a vote? just a vote sandman? what.. no backbone? no spunk? no conviction? no protest beyond a few swipes at a gaming bbs on the subject?

You're assuming that I live here or something.



just a 'vote'?



Just a vote? The founding fathers considered it to be a powerful thing. It is democracy in action.


if it makes yah feel any better, i ain't voting for him next time around either, but for other reasons. not that i voted for him this time for that matter. in the meantime, our boys are gettin hosed.. and i'm gonna back 'em up, and try to get 'em home by showing support.. not undermining their actions or their mission.

Support the troops? Absolutely. I don't believe I've ever stated anything on this board to the contrary.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Support the troops? Absolutely. I don't believe I've ever stated anything on this board to the contrary.

of course not.

instead.. you continue to point out why they should not be doing what they are doing. while supporting sotto voice the troops themselves.

i see no distiction between supporting the troops and supporting the policy.

different strokes.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Hangtime
of course not.

instead.. you continue to point out why they should not be doing what they are doing. while supporting sotto voice the troops themselves.

i see no distiction between supporting the troops and supporting the policy.

different strokes.

I don't believe the soldiers have a choice. They have an oath to fulfill. I believe they are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing. You remember, I'm certain...

"... I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE..."

The soldiers are not permitted to question the motives of the president. I am, and I will.

[Hristo]

Iraq was a free country.

US is an aggressor.

It is worth to fight against an aggressor.

[babek-]

Originally posted by OZkansas
What will the world gain if Saddam is removed from power:

1. Iraqi will have an opportunity to taste freedom and install a government they chose.
2. The neighbors of Iraq will no longer fear invasion by Saddam.
3. This regime represents a potential source for weapons for terrorist.  The people of the USA will feel safer.
4. The Iraqi people will be free from fear.  Oil will be a wealth that all Iraqi people will participate.
5.  One less dictator the world will have to tolerate.
6. Perhaps the new Iraq will help change the Middle East from kingdoms and theocracy to governments that the people participate as a force.

I’m sure you can think of other things that this will change.

I have to wonder why so many around the world are so afraid of these changes?  It seems this minority thinks that people desire to be ruled by religious thugs and dictators!  Or is it they just fear change as they think it may affect them.  Or is it they are just fearful.

ROTFL !!!!

You are really a victim of the FOX-propaganda shows.

That lack of knowledge about the situation in the Middle East of Iraq has brought you the actual military situation. No people, who are happy to be freed and celebrating the liberators.
They hate Saddam - right - but they also hate americans and the UK (which was their former colonial power).


About your unrealistic points:
1. Iraq will NOT get a democracy. If the US will allow this after the victory the shiite majority will elect their highest leader Ajatollah Hakim, who lives in iranian exile and you have created a second Islamic Republic in the region.

Also the people will get the same "freedom" like the afghans got after the "victory" there.

2. Right - instead they have to fear operations from US-intelligence supported terrorism of so called freedom fighters which will operate from iraqui territory.

Just watch Iran for example.

In the last decade they have made many reforms against the fundementalistic mullahs. They even elected a prime minister against the will of the mullahs.

Then Bush made his stupid "Iran is part of the axis of evil speach" and starts his military policy.
Really a good way to raise fear of people against americans. Especially if they see day by day the pictured of killed and wounded "collateral damage" in Iraq because of allied surgical air strikes.

For them Bush is like a christian religious fanatic inquisitor from the middle-age who wants to free their soules by burning them.

3. The US people will feel safer until they realise that they became more isolated and hated in the world because of Bush idiotic war policy.

4. The Iraqui people will not be free of fear. There will be 100Thousands of dead iraquis after the "victory", when the civil war between kurds, shiites, sunnites and the factions within breaks out.

And the oil will be stolen by the victors.

5. And another dictator will be installed by the victors as a puppet - like in Afghanistan. The CIA-supported "General" Dostum who is a war criminal and who has killed thousands of POW´s in barbaric ways has become 2nd defense minister of the afghan government because of US intervention.
This man has a good chance to become the next CIA-produced Frankenstein-Monster  like Osama or Saddam before.

The USA has to install a sunnite leader if they want to control Iraq after a "victory". This is minority faction of Iraq which has supressed the kurds and shiites since 1921. And the candidates are really funny: x-saddam generals who have committed brutal crimes in the Iran-Iraq war. There will be just a replacement of one dictator with another.

6. LOL LOL LOL
In Iraq there are the most holy places of the shiites. The shiite people there are even more religious fanatics than in Iran.
When their Ajatollah gives them an order they fullfill this without asking any questions.

And the hate against the foreign and heretic invaders is raising day by day.

Also the kurds will take their chance to get independance - and they will be manipulated again by foreign nations to fight against each other. Iran, Turkey, Syria, the "victory nations" - all have "their" kurdish puppet clans and made arrangements to lead them to a new victory.

There will be no peace in Iraq for a very long time.

Not because the USA and GB cant win the war. They will do so - no dounbt.
But they have no chance to win the peace.

Welcome to reality...

[Lazerus1]

Originally posted by -aper-
Funked, just try to think it from the other point of view:

What will the world gain if George W Bush is removed from power:

1. All countries in the world will have an opportunity to taste freedom and install a governments they chose.
2. All countries in the world will no longer fear invasion by George W Bush.
3. This regime represents a potential source for weapons for terrorist. All countries in the world will feel safer.
4. All countries in the world will be free from fear. UN will be a wealth that all countries in the world will participate.
5. One less ... (hmm, put here something)  the world will have to tolerate.

All but #1 are false.

[Hristo]

Iraqi people fight for freedom now.

Maybe bodybags will teach US a lesson.

[GRUNHERZ]

Pathetic...

Tell me something you jebena pizda was the USA conducting such an illegal anti freedom war when the helped up plan the 1995 offensive and bombed serb positions in bosnia, did they need body bags to tech them lessons then?

[Hristo]

I see we got into personal attacks. Don't go that low, please.

[GRUNHERZ]

Sorry Hristo... But man you have gone beyond all reason, please reconsider and rethink your idea that the iraqi people consider rule by saddam hussein and his cadre to be freedom.

Then maybe we can talk more reasonably.

[Lazerus1]

Originally posted by Hristo
Iraqi people fight for freedom now.

Maybe bodybags will teach US a lesson.

Personell attacks?


You're an ass.


We need just one body bag, labled HR..............

nvrmnd.

[Arlo]

Harry Reasoner? I thought he retired in `91? OMG ..... was he embedded?

[Siaf__csf]

1. Iraqi will have an opportunity to taste freedom and install a government they chose.
2. The neighbors of Iraq will no longer fear invasion by Saddam.
3. This regime represents a potential source for weapons for terrorist. The people of the USA will feel safer.
4. The Iraqi people will be free from fear. Oil will be a wealth that all Iraqi people will participate.
5. One less dictator the world will have to tolerate.
6. Perhaps the new Iraq will help change the Middle East from kingdoms and theocracy to governments that the people participate as a force.
 

1. Because of the situation in Iraq, there can't be a government that's supported by every part of the nation. The most likely scenario is that Iraq will have a civil war after Saddam dies.

2. The neighbours of Iraq are looking for opportunities to gain from the assault. According to nbc news Iran already has thousands of infiltrators in the western part of Iraq. Military analysts say there's a fair risk coalition troops will be caught in the middle with Iran, Iraq and Turks all trying to grab land / oilfields.

3. The attack in itself works as an ad campaign in all islamic countries. They're using it for thier propaganda and you're effectively recruiting new members for the Al-khaeda. They're increasing thier attacks because of this, not ending them. Make no mistake.

4. The history of the region shows that democratic elections will lead into an islamic fundamentalist regime (just look at Turkey just recently.) While they're elected democratically, they usually lead into extreme religious regulation, lack of human rights and oppression of the people who won't comply with the rules.

5. Read above, the leader of the new regime will be or be replaced with another dictator who will continue in Saddams footpaths. This is common also with fundamentalist regimes.

6. Perhaps Iraq will be all they promised it will be. If the new regime fails, Iraq will become again your problem number one with

a) Islamic fundamentalist regime supporting Al khaeda
b) A chaotic society, corruption which allows again terrorist groups to operate freely on the area
c) A possible war with the neighbouring countries, or even worse a civil war which will destabilize the whole area for years.

But they don't talk about this stuff on Fox do they?
The shock and awe campaign left the coalition in shock and awe when they realized Iraqis didn't cave in. They chose to fight.

Your troops are not welcomed as liberators, and that's exactly the only thing that would have made the operation a success. It has already failed its target.

[Toad]

The actual target is to find and destroy any and all WMD.

The regime change has to happen for that to happen. Well, has too since SH would not willingly comply with the terms of the GW1 ceasefire.

It's just a bit early yet to decide if the Iraqis will be glad to be rid of him. Clearly his fedayeen are still capable of killing those who show enthusiasm for regime change at the present.