Author Topic: a post I agree with :  (Read 1438 times)

Offline straffo

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a post I agree with :
« on: March 31, 2003, 01:53:48 AM »
As proud members of the World War II online community, we the French and French speaking members are outraged by the many intolerant messages posted on the Off topic Board. Those messages were in most cases direct or indirect insults toward people from France, because of the decision taken by French government not to support war. Even if we strongly believe that everyone is entitled to have his own opinion we do not think it is appropriate to insult, bash or threaten French people, culture or history.

America and France always shared a special link. France was always fascinated by the states and its achievement, Americans on their side always admired French culture. It’s true that there were always tensions between English speakers and French speakers, which probably date to the Britain and France wars including the 100years war in the middle ages and Napoleon campaigns. However this rule seemed to not apply fully between France and America, probably because of the independence war, when French troop under the command of La Fayette fought along Americans against the brits. It’s maybe true that this action was done more to defeat Britain than to help Americans, but since then, both countries respect each other and most importantly inspire each other. One good example is the French revolution that was inspired by the democratic regime in the US. Indeed France and the USA are the two oldest democratic countries in the world.
Both countries share many historic similitudes and fought many wars together. French troops shed blood with their American comrades in WWI, WWII, Korea, the first Gulf War, Yugoslavia and more recently in Afghanistan. France stood next to the US during the cold war and would have used its nuclear weapons against USSR if America was attacked, even if that meant total destruction of France.

In World War II 18 year old kids died on the beaches of Normandy so that we the French can live again in a free country: a country which is democratic, a country where you can express your thoughts freely. American kids died so that we can speak freely and give our opinions without being threatened, bashed or insulted by an unfair regime. That is the basis of freedom, everybody is entitled to think freely and speak freely. By insulting people thinking differently than you, you become no better than the people we fight. It is everybody’s right to criticize the policy of a government but no one has the right to criticize a group of people based on their nationality, language, race or religion.
The American or French populations are no better than any other population on the world, they are not more: intelligent, courageous, or have better values.

America is not the only country which has been subject to terrorism. France has been under terroriste threats for more than 50 years (we don’t have a big ocean to protect us). In fact France and USA have both the same objective, destroying all the terrorist networks that pollute this world. France and the USA are both working together to eradicate this threat, good example is Afghanistan, where French troops are involved in securing this country. In regard to Iraq France is by no mean coward or hypocrite. France wants the same thing than US, but does not think that the use of force is appropriate at this moment. You can agree or disagree with this policy, but this does not give you the right to insult us.

Finally we want to thank the rats and the different moderators of the Off Topic forum for their great job. We know it is a tough job to keep this forum clean. We appreciate all the efforts that were made.

For the record: This message was written by the French World War II community which is composed of both anti and pro-war members.

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Offline GRUNHERZ

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a post I agree with :
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2003, 02:01:05 AM »
That is by far the most disguisting and inapropriate post ever on this BBS, especially in light of HTC current request for decency. Please take it down before it's too late for you.

:)

Offline Rasker

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a post I agree with :
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2003, 02:21:57 AM »
As a proud descendant of Frenchmen who shed their blood at Agincourt, I fully agree that the entire French nation should not be abused and insulted for the current policy disagreement between the French and American governments.

However, it seems to me, that the current French government was not acting in good faith in the past few months, and it's actions appeared solely meant to delay military action rather than to achieve a reasonable resolution of the current crisis.  Why this was done may be revealed in time, perhaps when the archives and weapons stocks of the current and doomed Iraqi regime are examined.  Suffice it to say that those actions appeared to me to be in the mold of Vichy rather than DeGaulle

Offline Hortlund

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Re: a post I agree with :
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2003, 02:49:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Americans on their side always admired French culture.  


Is this true?

Offline Martlet

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Re: Re: a post I agree with :
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2003, 03:35:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Is this true?


Hmmm, I don't think so.  Maybe.  I'm from New England.

Culture for us is a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken (Extra Crispy) and a case of Heineken, while watching the Miss USA pageant.

Offline blitz

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a post I agree with :
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2003, 08:29:04 AM »
Seconded  


Regards Blitz

Offline lazs2

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a post I agree with :
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2003, 08:36:38 AM »
don't most of the french people agree with their government?

If so... then I believe that they are causing the deaths of coalition forces and many iraqi people.  I believe that ultimately they are furthering terrorism.   Those who do not support their governments stand are excepted.
lazs

Offline AKIron

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a post I agree with :
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2003, 09:50:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
don't most of the french people agree with their government?

If so... then I believe that they are causing the deaths of coalition forces and many iraqi people.  I believe that ultimately they are furthering terrorism.   Those who do not support their governments stand are excepted.
lazs


A post I can agree with.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline midnight Target

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a post I agree with :
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2003, 09:57:57 AM »
I can undertand the frustration with the bashing and jokes. I am sure there are Frenchmen who disagree with their Government's decision who deserve our respect.

OTOH I heard a recent poll in France indicated that about 33% of the population wants Iraq to win the war. This might even be a higher percentage than in the Country of Iraq!

Offline Furball

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a post I agree with :
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2003, 09:59:32 AM »
so your saying.... us British  may still abuse you? just americans cant? :D
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Offline Mini D

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a post I agree with :
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2003, 10:16:15 AM »
My exposure to the French is very limited.  Basically, there's what I see on the news and what I see in this forum.  Right now, neither are doing very good at boosting my opinion of them.

If you'd like not to be criticized, then its probably a good idea not to criticize everyone that does it.  If you'd like not to be stereotyped, then its a good idea not to go around stereotyping everyone.  If you'd like to fight terrorism, you need to fight it everyone and not just in the countries that aren't armed to the teeth with your weapons.

I'll admit that there is a certain amount of arrogance in the U.S.'s attitude towards the French.  The French fail to realize it pales in comparison.

MiniD

Offline Toad

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a post I agree with :
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2003, 10:23:23 AM »
And what would be the opinions around the world if it became known the French were supplying Iraq with current Intel on coalition forces?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline AKIron

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a post I agree with :
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2003, 11:05:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
And what would be the opinions around the world if it became known the French were supplying Iraq with current Intel on coalition forces?


I'd consider that an act of war and hope that our leaders see it the same way. You have some inside info on this Toad?
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Offline Mini D

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a post I agree with :
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2003, 11:14:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
I'd consider that an act of war and hope that our leaders see it the same way. You have some inside info on this Toad?
Do you really think the U.S. wants to start considering things like this an act of war?

I can't be the only one that finds the fact that the U.S. is upset about someone selling the Iraqis night vision goggles hillarious.

The French are pissed because we are ****ing with one of their weapons customers (oh.. that's right... its about oil).  So far we've had french scuds, chinese silkworm missiles and Russian tanks as opposition.  Who were the three nations most vociferous against this conflict again?

I'd like to see the U.N. do something about arms build ups in certain countries.  Discovering oil should not be a qualification for elligable to be sold 4th largest army in the world.

MiniD

Offline Dowding

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a post I agree with :
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2003, 11:18:35 AM »
Quote
And what would be the opinions around the world if it became known the French were supplying Iraq with current Intel on coalition forces?


That's a ridiculous proposition. Verging on hysterical.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.