Author Topic: Help a beginer choose a good starting firearm  (Read 3058 times)

Offline CavemanJ

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Help a beginer choose a good starting firearm
« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2003, 10:00:31 AM »
Welcome to the world of Gun Owners :D

Didnae read the whole thread, just the original post and scanned it a bit.

First thing, like (I think) Hangtime said, if ya gotta pull and fire, shoot to kill.  Period.

Now, my preferred carry piece is the Colt 1911A1, 70series, chambered in .45ACP.  The 80series (in the 91A1s also) are nice pieces, but you can't get as fine a trigger with them because of the firing pin block mechanism.

What should you get?  That all depends on you and what you want in a gun.  The Colt .45s are very managable weapons.  On the other hand, the Barretta 9mm's are decent.  These are the 2 main camps in the circles I travel =)

.45ACP - Low velocity, high impact round.  You hit something with this and it'll know for sure it's been hit, specially with high performance hollow point ammo.

9mm - High velocity, low impact round.  Ya know in movies, they show a guy get shot 3 times, jerk a little on each impact, and keep comin before he dies?  There ya go.  Round passes right through.

.40S&W - I like this round, kind of a "best of both world" from the .45 and 9mm.  Looking at Glocks chambered in .40S&W I'd go for the Glock23 instead of the 22.  I've owned both, and the 23 (compact model) just felt better and was easier to point shoot.

Then there's the 10mm.  Same caliber as the .40 but a longer cartridge.  The Colt Delta Elite chambered in 10mm is a very nice weapon, and my second choice of personal sidearms.

Now if ya wanna go with a 'wheel gun' ya can't go wrong with a .357mag.  Lazs does a nice job highlighting revolvers.  They do tend to be more accurate than the autos.  I've got a Colt Trooper .357mag 6" I'll shoot against anyone's rifle, iron sights to iron sights, out to 150yds.

Offline Leslie

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« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2003, 10:09:29 AM »
Animal, you asked what would make for a good starting firearm.

In my opinion, and this would apply to everyone and not just you, that Red Ryder BB gun would be the best to start with.  This is not a cut, but in all seriousness, many of today's top sharpshooters started out practicing with BB guns 'til they could hit any target at any time, each and every time.

Next move would be a .22 rifle single shot "til the same results were achieved.  After that, a .22 lever action such as a Marlin 39A model were used (Annie Oakley's favorite.)  I remember reading in a gun magazine a few years ago, about a man who hit 9,997 out of a possible 10,000 two inch wood cubes tossed up in the air, using one of these Marlin .22s.

You did mention target shooting as your intended use to start out with.  I would avoid semi-autos for a couple reasons, the main one being a dependency on rapid follow-up shots to hit the target.  Target shooters need to be able to depend on the first shot, with disciplined follow-up shots.  The pause between shots forces the shooter to have self-discipline and form consistency...like bowling, golf, archery, horseshoes,etc...

I don't know what your level of proficiency is with a firearm Animal.  Normally, handguns are more advanced target weapons for folks who already pretty much know what they're doing.  They require greater control to handle, and are inherently more dangerous than long arms.

Good luck to you mate, be careful, and have fun.  For target shooting, try to develop the one shot at a time approach, until shooting the weapon becomes second nature.  



Les

Offline Airhead

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« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2003, 10:22:53 AM »
Keep in mind that Animal has extremely weak wrists as you recommend him firearms. A .357's recoil might be too much for him.

Offline Hooligan

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« Reply #48 on: April 02, 2003, 10:33:49 AM »
I own a Glock 23 and some other pistols.  The Glock is my favorite.  Glocks are simple and reliable, very nice guns.  However...  If you are buying a pistol for self-defense,  I really would suggest a .357 magnum.  There is just a lot less to go wrong with the revolver.  When you get a malfunction in an automatic there are a lot of different things it could be.  The training drills for the various types of malfunctions involve things such as:  tilting the gun back to look into the chamber, racking the slide multiple times, ejecting magazines etc... etc...  With a revolver there is ONE response to a malfunction:  pull the trigger again.  If you ever have to use it in self defense, this could be a big deal.

If you want to treat the pistol as a hobby, take some serious training, spend a lot of practice time and become proficient then IMO an automatic is better.  If you are not going to make that kind of commitment, then a revolver is much less likely to be problematic in a stressful situation.

Hooligan

Offline air_guard

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« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2003, 10:36:25 AM »
If you cant hit with a shotgun, you should not try shooting .
« Last Edit: April 02, 2003, 04:06:35 PM by air_guard »

Offline Saurdaukar

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« Reply #50 on: April 02, 2003, 10:41:45 AM »
Couple points (personal opinion only)

Glocks:  Very, very fine weapons.  Im partial to the 19 and the 23 (9mm and .40 respectively).  I worked at a rifle range as an instructer all throughout college and we must have put over a million rounds through the 17 - not a single misfire, not a single stove pipe, not a single jam, not a single FTF/FTE.  I deplore the "pointability" of the weapon, but for a quick, precise defense weapon and "plinker" you cant do much better for the money.  These things will shoot forever, maintained properly or not.  The downside is the safety (or lack thereof).  There is a small plastic piece on the trigger that must be depressed before the trigger can be pulled - its not really any "less safe" than any other firearm, but new comers may feel uneasy about it.

1911's:  The best.  Colt, Springfield Armory, Kimber, Les Baer - all great 1911 manufacturers.  Much like MiniD, I prefer to replace to the stock wodden or plastic grips with rubber wrap arounds as I have fairly large hands.  The .45 ACP round is the absolute BEST for self defense.  Its slow, and hits like a hammer.  Whatever you fire at will nto be getting back up.  I still maintain that the .45 ACP is the finest pistol round made.  The must be taken care of, but they will east any round you feed them, will fire every time, and will fire accurately (there is a reason more than 90% of compitition shooters use modified 1911's as their peices.)  The downsides are again - new user unfreindly.  The short barrel 1911's have a tendency to "kick" a little too much for the new shooter, and the single action is enough to scare some people.  The firearm must be carried "locked and cocked" to be effective.  The visable cocked hammer can be nerve racking for some if its pointed down at your foot in a holster.  The "pointability" is as good as they get though.  You can hit what you want to without even really aiming the weapon.  Another downside - the weapon is VERY heavy compared to the others.

Berreta 92F:  Basically the same as the military's M9, the 92F is a fine pistol for most - but I dont like it.  The two models we had at the range (92F standard and a 96 (.40) Inox) were very troublesome.  The would jam consistantly with certain types of ammo, they must be cleaned fanatically, and we had two slides break within 40,000 rounds.  Alot of people swear by them, and the US military has adopted them.  The 9mm ammo is cheap, but not very effective at stoping a target (US Army/MC manuals state that 5 rounds must be fired to "stop" a charging enemy.  I dont htink the 9mm is a good defensive round for this reason, as well as the fact that it is a very high velocity round and in a defense situation, may pass through your target and strike an innocent bystander.  The weapon is fairly large and difficult to conceal, but its easy to shoot.

H&K's:  Dont like these at all.  Serious reliability issues with the models Ive shot, and they just feel too "plasticky."

Sig Sauers:  Fine weapons again.  The P228 we had didnt stand up to hundreds of thousands of rounds very well, but replacement parts are cheap and easy to find.  Good feel, light weight, large magazine capacity, and in 9mm form, not too difficult to handle for a first time shooter.

I still say stick with the 1911's.  You just cant go wrong with a Colt, SA, or Kimber.

Offline Animal

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« Reply #51 on: April 02, 2003, 11:35:23 AM »
Loving this thread so far. Cant wait to try the diferent models at a range.

Quote
Originally posted by Leslie
Animal, you asked what would make for a good starting firearm.

In my opinion, and this would apply to everyone and not just you, that Red Ryder BB gun would be the best to start with.  This is not a cut, but in all seriousness, many of today's top sharpshooters started out practicing with BB guns 'til they could hit any target at any time, each and every time.

Next move would be a .22 rifle single shot "til the same results were achieved.  After that, a .22 lever action such as a Marlin 39A model were used (Annie Oakley's favorite.)  I remember reading in a gun magazine a few years ago, about a man who hit 9,997 out of a possible 10,000 two inch wood cubes tossed up in the air, using one of these Marlin .22s.

You did mention target shooting as your intended use to start out with.  I would avoid semi-autos for a couple reasons, the main one being a dependency on rapid follow-up shots to hit the target.  Target shooters need to be able to depend on the first shot, with disciplined follow-up shots.  The pause between shots forces the shooter to have self-discipline and form consistency...like bowling, golf, archery, horseshoes,etc...

I don't know what your level of proficiency is with a firearm Animal.  Normally, handguns are more advanced target weapons for folks who already pretty much know what they're doing.  They require greater control to handle, and are inherently more dangerous than long arms.

Good luck to you mate, be careful, and have fun.  For target shooting, try to develop the one shot at a time approach, until shooting the weapon becomes second nature.  



Les


I grew up with a .22 rifle in my hands, I am a pretty good marksman :) can hit quarters about 80 yards away.

What I'm inexperienced in, is handguns.

Offline Charon

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« Reply #52 on: April 02, 2003, 02:36:18 PM »
The 1911 is the most natural feeling pistol I've ever fired - it just feels right in the hand. Not unmanagable even for a first-time shooter if there is adequate instruction in the basics that can be built upon with additional practice.

However, the best .45 I ever shot was a friend's Glock with the 12-round magazine. It was easy to shoot and I was more accurate with that gun than with my 9 mm Tarus 92C knockoff.

One consideration is ammo cost. 9mm is really cheap yet it's a big enough round to have a little kick. I'm partial to .45, but get a bit of sticker shock sending rounds down range :)

Charon
« Last Edit: April 02, 2003, 06:39:56 PM by Charon »

Offline squelch_19

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« Reply #53 on: April 02, 2003, 03:22:02 PM »
Get yourself a .44...



You can learn to shoot any gun if you stick with it.

Sounds like you don't have a bunch of options where you live, so I'd certainly get a .44. At least you will not have to worry about getting a bigger cal.; if you can't stop someone with one of these, you're in way too deep.

The semi-autos are a good brag item and fun to shoot...but when it all come down to it there is only a few shots fired in most personal disputes. So getting in 9 shots might be good, but the first one is the one that will most likely get the job done.

And once you can shoot a .44, most other guns will seem pretty lame :cool:

Offline Dune

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« Reply #54 on: April 02, 2003, 03:54:29 PM »
Yeah, get a .44.  In your house, if you miss the bad guy, you can set him on fire with the muzzle flash.  ;)

Offline TPIguy

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« Reply #55 on: April 02, 2003, 04:00:23 PM »
I guess I'm old fashioned. I prefer wheels guns.

I'd have to reccomend a .357, the reasons have been stated above. Relaibility, power (when you need it), accuracy, and ammo can be pretty cheap too.

I've shot about 12-15 different hand guns and my favorite by far is still my Colt King Cobra. with a 6"barrel the recoil isnt bad at all and the gun is very well balanced. Also its got the best grip of any gun I've shot.

I also own a S&W sigma p40c (.40cal). Its a cheap glock knockoff that I only bought cause I got a great deal on it. I like the .40 round but not in this gun. Its too light and the barrel is too short. Its also not very accurate.

If you want to get something really cheap and accurate get a ruger or S&W .22. No good for defense but makes a great 2nd gun for plinking.

In the end it all comes down what you like most. Talk to people at the range, ask if you can shoot a few rounds through thier guns. Most people (myself aswell) won't mind at all.  When you find something you like, buy it.

Right now I'm storing some guns for my brother so I've got access to just about everything from a .22 to a .44. But you can bet if my life depends on it I'm grabbing my Colt.


the pic dosen't do it justice, but my Colt is a really beautiful gun.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2003, 04:04:02 PM by TPIguy »

Offline Sundiver

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If you're serious..
« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2003, 04:09:50 PM »

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2003, 04:31:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by milnko
I've never heard of a revolver jamming tho, have you?

I had a Dan Wesson .357mag for years. It had interchangable barrels, so you could put a 2 1/2", 4", 6", 8" all the way up to a 12" barrels on it. As well as interchangable sights

Plus you can shoot .38 rounds out of a .357mag, ( I used .38 reloads for target practice).

So basically U get like 6 guns for the price of one.


I used to have a Dan Wesson .44 mag with an 8 inch barrel, that thing was SWEEEEET!! If you want true stopping power go with a .454 Casul (sp). That thing will penetrate 1/4 inch steel plate, 357/44 mags just dent it :D
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Animal

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« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2003, 04:33:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TPIguy
I guess I'm old fashioned. I prefer wheels guns.

I'd have to reccomend a .357, the reasons have been stated above. Relaibility, power (when you need it), accuracy, and ammo can be pretty cheap too.

I've shot about 12-15 different hand guns and my favorite by far is still my Colt King Cobra. with a 6"barrel the recoil isnt bad at all and the gun is very well balanced. Also its got the best grip of any gun I've shot.

I also own a S&W sigma p40c (.40cal). Its a cheap glock knockoff that I only bought cause I got a great deal on it. I like the .40 round but not in this gun. Its too light and the barrel is too short. Its also not very accurate.

If you want to get something really cheap and accurate get a ruger or S&W .22. No good for defense but makes a great 2nd gun for plinking.

In the end it all comes down what you like most. Talk to people at the range, ask if you can shoot a few rounds through thier guns. Most people (myself aswell) won't mind at all.  When you find something you like, buy it.

Right now I'm storing some guns for my brother so I've got access to just about everything from a .22 to a .44. But you can bet if my life depends on it I'm grabbing my Colt.


the pic dosen't do it justice, but my Colt is a really beautiful gun.


Very good info. Thanks.
I guess I'll just get my license first, and then I'll go to the range and ask friendly looking people to let me use their gun, and I'll pay for the ammo.

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2003, 04:37:51 PM »
good approach.

and get the training to use responsibly.
nothing worse that gun owners that are 'self taught'  IMHO


oh.. and for real stopping power

357, 44 or 45
like was metioned earlier.. the muzzle flash alone should scare 'em away
« Last Edit: April 02, 2003, 04:40:56 PM by Wlfgng »