Author Topic: Ultralights penetrate US air defenses.  (Read 970 times)

Offline Habu

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Ultralights penetrate US air defenses.
« on: April 03, 2003, 12:35:50 PM »
Someone on an ultralight list I belong to posted this. I did not pull it off the original news site so I cannot be 100% certain it is a true story, but it appears to be.

Iraqi ultralights spotted over U.S. troops                                            
                                                                                       
 By Sean D. Naylor                                                                    
 Times staff writer                                                                    
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 CENTRAL IRAQ
 At least two Iraqi ultralight aircraft flew over a patch of desert    
 Friday where thousands of U.S. soldiers and several command and control facilities    
 are located. The appearance of enemy aircraft over U.S. positions is especially      
 alarming because the military believes ultralight aircraft of the type spotted Friday
 may be used to deliver chemical or biological weapons.                                
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 There is one other alarming possibility, according to briefings given intelligence    
 officers here: Craft like that might be used in kamikaze suicide attacks, a          
 possibility driven home Saturday morning when an apparent suicide bomber blew up a    
 car at a checkpoint manned by soldiers from this same outfit, the 3rd Infantry        
 Division (Mechanized). U.S. Central Command confirmed the report and said four        
 American soldiers were killed. It had no reports of any wounded.                      
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 Maj. Gen. Victor E. "Gene" Renuart Jr., director of operations for Central Command,  
 was quick to label the bombing as an act of terrorism. "That kind of an activity is a
 symbol of an organization that is beginning to get a little bit desperate," he added.
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 The appearance of the aircraft caught the Central Command off guard. Saturday        
 afternoon, 24 hours after the craft had flown over the U.S. position, Renuart told a  
 press briefing that the Iraqis have "not flown an airplane, they have not had the    
 capability to fly an airplane, they've not shown any inclination to fly an airplane."
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 He added, "We keep a very close eye on the Iraqi airfields. We've kept them closed,  
 we intend to continue to keep them closed. We're concerned about any possible use of  
 an airplane to conduct terror or military operations and we watch that very, very    
 carefully."                                                                          
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 Both of the small, prop-driven aircraft spotted here evaded a tight air defense      
 system and flew over an assembly area packed with helicopters, tanks, Bradley        
 fighting vehicles other military equipment. They flew off before the anti-aircraft    
 crews could get permission to shoot them down.                                        
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 Soldiers at a command center were the first to raise the alarm about enemy aircraft  
 after they looked up about 3 p.m. Friday and spotted an ultralight flying overhead,  
 according to Capt. Ruel Smith. Those soldiers passed the word to Smith, who commands  
 C Battery, 1st Battalion, 3rd Air Defense Artillery Regiment. Smith's battery is      
 attached to 3rd Infantry's 3rd Squadron, 7th Cavalry Regiment.                        
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 "Once we got the report we oriented all our fire units in that direction, and then    
 one of our units got eyes on it," said Smith, whose battery consists mostly of        
 Linebacker systems, which are Bradley fighting vehicles mounted with Stinger          
 anti-aircraft missiles. Meanwhile, a report came in of a second ultralight over a    
 different part of the assembly area.                                                  
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 Staff Sgt. Billy Armstrong, a Linebacker squad leader, was scanning the skies keenly.
 "We got the report that a possible ultralight paraglider would be coming close to the
 area," he said. "My driver noticed an aircraft off to the east unlike any he'd ever  
 seen before."                                                                        
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 Armstrong raised his binoculars to verify what his driver was reporting. About two    
 miles away he saw a tiny aircraft ? with a wingspan of about 15 to 20 feet ? being    
 steered by a pilot sitting on a seat beneath the wings, "with a small engine behind  
 his backside." The "grayish black" ultralight was about 900 feet above the ground,    
 flying in a straight line "as slow as a helicopter would," Armstrong said. The        
 realization that he and his troops might be about to shoot at an enemy aircraft hit  
 the squad leader hard. The dominance of U.S. air power in recent years has all but    
 eliminated the threat to U.S. ground forces from enemy aircraft.                      
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 (Continued below)

Offline Habu

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Ultralights penetrate US air defenses.
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2003, 12:36:40 PM »
"I was thinking, 'Oh ****! It's the first time in my 12 years that an air defense    
 role is gonna be played in a situation where we actually had the possibility of      
 firing a Stinger missile,' " Armstrong recalled. But it was not to be.                
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 Over the battalion radio net, Smith heard Avenger air defense systems ? Humvees      
 mounted with Stingers ? also being cued to the target. But even though at least one  
 of the ultralights was in the targets of his gunners, procedures here require that a  
 higher command, in this case V Corps, gives the approval to shoot. The aircraft      
 disappeared beyond the horizon while that permission was being sought.                
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 Armstrong and his soldiers were "very frustrated," he said. Smith acknowledged that  
 the failure to attack it was frustrating.                                            
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 "If I had authority to shoot it myself, we would have engaged it," he said. But he    
 added that he understood why he was required to seek approval from a three-star      
 headquarters before shooting at an enemy aircraft that was virtually overhead. "A lot
 of it has to do with cluttered skies," Smith said. "There are a lot of friendly      
 aircraft in these skies."                                                            
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 The crowd of helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft flying through this airspace        
 probably accounted for the ultralight pilots' ability to fly over such a sensitive    
 assembly area before being detected, according to Smith. The mass of aircraft showing
 up on radar screens makes it difficult for soldiers watching those screens to        
 distinguish, for instance, an Iraqi ultralight aircraft from a small U.S. Army        
 helicopter, he said.                                                                  
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 "It moves slow, and it has a prop, so it looks to us like a helicopter ? and there's  
 many, many, many helicopters here," he said.                                          
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 "There are more aircraft here than I've ever seen on a radar screen in my life,"      
 Smith said, "98 percent of which we positively know are friendly."                    
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 Once the ultralights disappeared over the horizon, the Army units here did not give  
 up the chase. Smith requested and received permission from 3rd ID to continue the    
 hunt, and three Linebackers headed out and drove two-and-a-half miles without        
 catching sight of the aircraft. Two 3rd Infantry Division Apaches were also diverted  
 to search for the aircraft, Smith said.                                              
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 About 30 minutes later came a report that OH-58D Kiowa Warrior helicopters of the    
 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) had seen an ultralight 25 miles south of here,  
 Smith said. But the 101st helicopters apparently did not follow the ultralight, for  
 reasons Smith said he could not explain.                                              
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 The appearance of the ultralight aircraft over this vital rear area did not come as a
 complete shock to intelligence and air defense officers here. In December about      
 "half-a-dozen" ultralight aircraft were also spotted flying over two U.S. military    
 camps in Kuwait, according to Capt. Jeff Ryals, 3-7 Cav's intelligence officer. U.S.  
 forces failed to shoot the aircraft down in that instance as well.                    
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 That "was a test to see if they could violate our airspace without getting shot      
 down," Ryals said.                                                                    
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 Smith said he had been briefed on the threat posed by the small aircraft, "although  
 we were told to expect a slightly different type of vehicle, which was a paraglider."
 The difference between the two is that a paraglider has a steerable parachute canopy  
 while an ultralight has a stable framed wing, he added.                              
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 Reports briefed to officers here indicate that the Iraqi regime tried to buy at least
 100 ultralights from an overseas company. But intelligence indicates that only about  
 50 have been delivered, Ryals said.                                                  
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 He listed three ways the Iraqis could use the ultralights: strategic reconnaissance  
 of Allied positions, spreading chemical or biological weapons, or loading the        
 aircraft with high-explosives and using them in Kamikaze-style suicide attacks. The  
 aircraft were probably being flown by pilots drawn from one of the paramilitary      
 forces loyal to the Hussein regime, or by Iraqi special forces, Ryals said.          
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 "All the [Iraqi] special forces missions we've seen in the last 10 years have been    
 strategic reconnaissance on motorcycles or infiltrators dressed as Bedouins," he      
 said. "So it would be a new tactic if special forces used these [ultralights] for    
 strategic reconnaissance."                                                            
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 The flights over this area yesterday were probably for the purpose of strategic      
 reconnaissance, "scouting out the sexiest targets to strike with surface-to-surface  
 missiles," Ryals said.                                                                
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 Authorities here have made two key changes in the wake of the yesterday's            
 overflights. "Something is being worked on right now to help someone looking at a    
 radar air picture determine which track is the ultralight," Smith said. And if        
 another ultralight appears overhead, Smith and other air defense commanders now have  
 the authority to shoot on sight.                                                      
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
 Although none could be certain, officers here believe this is the first time an enemy
 aircraft has flown over American ground forces since the Korean War.

Offline ccvi

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Ultralights penetrate US air defenses.
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2003, 12:59:25 PM »
When did someone post this to the list? 3 days ago?

Offline Curval

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Ultralights penetrate US air defenses.
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2003, 01:08:35 PM »
Well if a Blackhawk can be brought down with small arms fire imagine what is in store for an ultra-light pilot.  The soldiers now have permission to shoot on sight.
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Offline Habu

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Ultralights penetrate US air defenses.
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2003, 01:14:10 PM »
I scaned the first 2 pages of posts for the story before posting it. I did not see it so if it was already posted it dropped off the front pages very quickly.

I find this very interesting as it seems that the sophisticated radar systems the US is using do not detect powered parachutes. The engine on the chute is metal as is the cage surrounding the prop. The prop is probably plastic and the pilot and chute would have no metal on them.

The only way they knew the thing was around was by the reports they got from eye witnesses.

Very interesting. I fly ultralights and know people who fly these type of aircraft as well.

Offline Frogm4n

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Ultralights penetrate US air defenses.
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2003, 01:15:32 PM »
you know an enemy is truly evil when they start rolling out an airforce that was made in some guys garage.

Offline Animal

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Ultralights penetrate US air defenses.
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2003, 01:20:00 PM »
suicide attack... on an ultra light...

lol you guys are too much.

I could bring one down with a bow and arrow.

Offline icemaw

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Ultralights penetrate US air defenses.
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2003, 01:27:14 PM »
That is one plane I would never fly. Can you imagine 200' agl at 25 mph no armor no weapons and a bunch of marines with m16s under you. Can you say Pinata.
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Offline Frogm4n

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Ultralights penetrate US air defenses.
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2003, 01:27:52 PM »
reminds me of that simpsons where sideshow bob suicides the wright brothers plane into krusty the clown.

Offline Habu

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Ultralights penetrate US air defenses.
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2003, 01:32:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Animal
suicide attack... on an ultra light...

lol you guys are too much.

I could bring one down with a bow and arrow.


You probably could if you were in the right place at the right time.

My ultralight can fly up as high as the oxygen level in the air lets me go. I am sure that if you are up that high then you would much more visible than these two guys where who seemed to stay very close to the ground.

Regarding an attack, if they had aerosol disperants and were blowing anthrax spores along as they flew the troops below would have been in big trouble.

It is kind of scary that the US can detect an incoming Scud and shoot it down but these two little aircraft can come in unhindered and leave as well.

I wonder what they were doing? What was thier mission?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2003, 10:24:14 AM by Habu »

Offline ccvi

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Ultralights penetrate US air defenses.
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2003, 01:53:37 PM »
Modern ultralights (up to 450 kg) are real aircraft controlled via all three axis, with >100 hp engines and cruise speed of 200 knots...

Offline Golfer

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ccvi...
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2003, 03:00:08 PM »
What ultralight specs are you looking at?  I've flown a Powered parachute (35mph no matter what.  up down straight you're going 35mph and you like it or else) and a Challenger II and Challenger II Special.  The fastest ive been in either of these is 110mph (not knots).

I no longer do that because i like to think im smarter than some of the nutjobs (hi habu!!) who fly some of these tissue paper and toothpick ultralights out there.

Offline ccvi

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Ultralights penetrate US air defenses.
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2003, 05:56:08 PM »
Ok, 200 knots was a bit too much, but just a bit ;)
Try one of these, many more out there. Just what google found:

http://www.microleve.com.br/produtos/2000rg.htm (cruise 124 knots)
http://www.volny.cz/ivanovaero/angl.ww023.htm (cruise 134 knots)
http://www.bredow-web.de/ILA_2002/Kleinflugzeuge/Evolution/evolution.html (cruise 145 knots)

Offline Lazerus1

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« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2003, 10:14:57 PM »
« Last Edit: April 03, 2003, 10:17:04 PM by Lazerus1 »

Offline Golfer

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ccvi
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2003, 10:46:08 PM »
Ah hem...would you fly in ANY of those sir?  the first looks like a Cutlass RG (Cessna 172 with Retracts that are more quirky than a flamingo's legs) the 2nd looked like a small flying coffin.  the third looks like kind of an airplane with its main gear so close together you could blow at it on one side and it will tip over.

::shudders::

Wonder how many fatal accidents went undocumented...