Author Topic: This is justice? (Read 2449 times)

Batz · « **Reply #30 on:** April 05, 2003, 09:07:49 PM »

He is not detained in expectation of criminal charges. Hes detained as a "material witness". The Supreme Court of the US allows "material witnesses" to held until they testify. Its not against constitution or any law.

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our founding fathers are probably rolling in their graves now

They already spun themselves into dust during Lincoln's presidency. If not FDR and Johnson finished them off.

Never has "original intent" been a part of our legal system. So whatever the "founding fathers" originally intended means nothing. The founding fathers never intended for a federal of the size and scope we have now.

A liberal bringing up original intent is comical any way.

Theres nothing illegal immoral or unconstutional about this guys current treatment. His wife admits he has given money to an organization that funnels money to terrorists. They have confiscated his computer and some financial records. But the fact you dont know why hes held is immaterial. The government is well within its rights and a federal judge has to agree with them.

Tumor · « **Reply #31 on:** April 05, 2003, 09:12:35 PM »

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Originally posted by Batz
He is not detained in expectation of criminal charges. Hes detained as a "material witness". The Supreme Court of the US allows "material witnesses" to held until they testify. Its not against constitution or any law.

They already spun themselves into dust during Lincoln's presidency. If not FDR and Johnson finished them off.

Never has "original intent" been a part of our legal system. So whatever the "founding fathers" originally intended means nothing. The founding fathers never intended for a federal of the size and scope we have now.

A liberal bringing up original intent is comical any way.

Theres nothing illegal immoral or unconstutional about this guys current treatment. His wife admits he has given money to an organization that funnels money to terrorists. They have confiscated his computer and some financial records. But the fact you dont know why hes held is immaterial. The government is well within its rights and a federal judge has to agree with them.

NononononNO!! He should be allowed to do whatever bad things he wants until he's found guilty and sentenced to 20 lashes with a wet noodle by liberal judge.

Sandman · « **Reply #32 on:** April 05, 2003, 09:17:36 PM »

I'm not a lawyer, but it sure sounds like a violation of his 4th Amendment rights.

The lawyers at the ACLU certainly believe there are Constitutional "issues" with this case.

Whatever it is... a government that siezes people for secret reasons can't be a good thing, IMHO.

john9001 · « **Reply #33 on:** April 05, 2003, 09:40:34 PM »

ACLU = American Communist Lawyers Union

Saurdaukar · « **Reply #34 on:** April 06, 2003, 01:01:27 AM »

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Originally posted by SaburoS
No, the issue is that we DON'T know why he is being detained....

Clear enough for you?

ROFL! And who are you to require such knowledge? LOL!!!

Go back to flying your La7 and let the government do its job.

The nerve.

Batz · « **Reply #35 on:** April 06, 2003, 01:31:33 AM »

The ACLU doesnt defend the constitution, they defend a liberal view of the world.

This guys isnt the first guy held as a "material witness". Wheres all the law suites?

If theres all the violations going on why are judges allowing the detentions?

Is all part of the massive right wing conspiracy to bring forth a police state?

The truth is out there and seems you believe you have it cornered.

Which one of us is next.....ohh its scary........

Sandman · « **Reply #36 on:** April 06, 2003, 01:35:49 AM »

The Justice Department will not release any figures on witness detentions linked to terrorism investigations.

I wonder why.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #37 on:** April 06, 2003, 01:49:16 AM »

Sandman what evidence do you have that this man did nothing to warrant his detention?

What evidence do ytou have a judge approved his detention without sufficent consideration.

What relevance is it that he has a family, a job a wife and kids or is a citizen? Are you saying any of these factors preclude anyone from engaging in terrorism activities or betraying his country?

Sandman · « **Reply #38 on:** April 06, 2003, 01:57:57 AM »

Got a flaw in your logic... proving the existance of nothing.

Put it this way... the judicial process is typically a public one. Warrants, indictments, etc are all matter of public record. Being incarcerated for secret reasons is the kind of crap they pulled in Germany, circa 1940. It's wrong.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #39 on:** April 06, 2003, 03:13:44 AM »

Then go ahead and prove the existance of "something" that says he does not deserve his detention...

You know the public does not have the right to know everyting all the time there are plenty of secrets in sensitive cases now and there always have been...

You just wanna make a martyr of him because you are a liberal and he is a muslim of color- cant beat that combo, hell I bet you creamed in your pants when you came across this case. Victim! Victim! Victim!

You know Sandman there are terrorists who dont look like Tim McVeigh - yea sorry to break that to ya...

Sandman · « **Reply #40 on:** April 06, 2003, 03:17:38 AM »

His color is irrelevant.

SaburoS · « **Reply #41 on:** April 06, 2003, 03:17:54 AM »

It isn't a liberal thing, nor is it a conservative thing. It's a civil liberties thing. It's one important thing that sets this country apart from communist and facist totalitarian regimes.

Presumed innocent until proven guilty is a powerful concept. Seems we're entering a phase of presumed guilty until proven innocent. Very un-American if you ask me.

Sandman · « **Reply #42 on:** April 06, 2003, 03:19:12 AM »

...but Saburo, earlier it was stated that civil liberties are a liberal thing, they don't obviously apply to conservatives.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #43 on:** April 06, 2003, 03:21:15 AM »

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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
His color is irrelevant.

Bullchit, just as irrelevent that he is a mulsim and and arab... It makes an extra special victim for you...

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #44 on:** April 06, 2003, 03:22:59 AM »

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Originally posted by SaburoS
Presumed innocent until proven guilty is a powerful concept. Seems we're entering a phase of presumed guilty until proven innocent. Very un-American if you ask me.

Uhmm we jail tons of people for a long long time and deny them bail before they are ever convicted..