Porked.

[Yeager]

Yes Funked,

I will try to go hunting with film on  

The only other things I can say is that what I have seen recently has been very, very, VERY odd!  

Thats why I am posting the things I have been lately.  I am not a bandwagon jumper or a whining squeak.  I have seen something very strange lately with the F4U and it is disturbing me.

AND ANOTHER THING.  I just got out of a med league thing flying 38s.  All I can say is I wish the compression was modeled in a more dynamic manner.  I Spent so much time watching my speed and recovering out of cunning sneaky compressions I could hardly fight  190s or 109s with this plane.  I finally went nose down on a 109 and immediately went into a stiff compression I could not get out of.  Again, E retention is way overdone or drag is way underdone
me-thinks

FWIW, Dale did a superb job with compression and drag in WBs but it isnt happening here in AH, yet.

Yeager

[Robert]

this is what my stats look like for the f4u-c vs my 51

7 kills and has been killed 3 times tour 9.
15 kills and has been killed 7 times tour 8.
10 kills and has been killed 3 times tour 7.
4 kills and has been killed 3 times tour 6.
9 kills and has been killed 8 times tour 5.
10 kills and has been killed 6 times tour 4.

quote from RAM
I know where this thread is heading. Lephturn and Verm will come and say "post me numbers and/or film or I won't believe it and so it is BS".

i have the films both of them(mine and suaves). not for the F4U but for the niki vs spit9. i talked to Robert Shaw at the AH CON at dinner about these very films. He was very interested in seeing them as well. So i let him see then ....he had no explanation for it. course these are for the niki not the F4U-C.
http://rwy0.tripod.com/AHcon2000/films.zip

quote from Apache
Rangrbob, is ALWAYS slower than the rest of us.

i dumped the CH analog js for the saitek x36 combo.
my 51 accels to top speed almost 5 seconds faster with this js
than it did with the ch stuff. this is mainly to js spikes i think.

Lephturn and Verm i want you to look at these films and tell me
what you think.


RWY out !

P.S. films for the f4u comming soon.

>

[Minotaur]

Two words:  "Get" "Film"

I have learned my lesson on related subjects a few times and have always lost.

In the mean time, never offer a straight H2H against any plane if you intend to blow through.  No matter what the initial conditions you percieve are present.  The other player or the FE will often fool you.

I try to offset laterally prior to the merge and possibly slightly below.  Then I turn up and into the bandit at merge and extend straight away from his six.

This allows me to:

• Avoild any potetial HO
• Detect a lead turn by the bandit
• Extend aft of his 3-9 line with alot of smash

------------------
Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble

[AKSeaWulfe]

He might wanna check his throttle to make sure he's getting full power. It might not be going all the way forward. If that's not it, what kind of CPU does he have? AMD or Intel? What does the rest of the squad have?
-SW

 

Originally posted by Apache:
A point to consider.....

We, VMF 323, have been noticeing something peculiar. One of our squaddies, Rangrbob, is ALWAYS slower than the rest of us. When we fly in formation, as we normally do, we constantly pull away from him or fly right past him. Yes, same this same that. His system is faster than mine with more ram, better video, etc.
Its really weird. This happens ALL the time. No warps, nothing. He is simply slower.

Could this be happening to others, therefore, that is why enemy closure speed seems impossible? Could this be affecting what you see, which is actually a simple lead turn? My brother, Comanche, uses the lead turn all the time and sometimes it looks (from my FE) impossible that he is able to make that shot. I know he is not a hacker. I am the computer guy (professionally) of the family. He calls me to fix the problems   .

Just a thought.

[bowser]

Robert,

Are you saying there was something wrong in the films?
I saw the Nik dive to gain speed, pull up into an immelman at over 300, coming over the top he was about 200 with you about 1k away.  He then dove to gain speed was about 300 again when you went straight up, about 1k away.  He followed you up, and when he shot you he was struggling to keep his nose up at about 50 mph, ready to stall...with you about D400-500.  It was nice flying on the edge and shooting on his part..I didn't see anything "uber".
People are saying these guys are gaining on you after they turn hard and you fly level not losing any e..I don't think this qualifies as an example of that.

bowser

[funked]

Grunherz, read Hblair's post.  That's a lead turn buddy.

N1K2 accelerating with the engine shut off, or maintaining speed in hard turns?  Sorry, not possible.  You must have dived slightly.

<S>

[funked]

Mino that's great advice you give.  

Basically against a lead turn you want to turn into the bandit's turn.  I.e. if he is turning left, you turn left slightly.  This reduces flight path separation and increases the degrees he has to turn through, which makes him bleed more speed.  He's only going to be able to catch you if he has a lot more speed initially.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-21-2000).]

[funked]

Yeager:

"Again, E retention is way overdone or drag is way underdone
me-thinks"

Well the only measures I have seen are Niklas's sustained turn rates which match NII-VVS results closely, and Wells' altitude loss in 4g turn results which match his own theoretical predictions nicely.  If anything Wells' results show that E retention in AH is underdone, not overdone.  

Nobody AFAIK has done any tests of transonic drag, i.e. drag at speeds where compressibility becomes a factor.  I don't have any real flight test data to compare to, nor do I have the aerodynamic knowledge to make theoretical predictions of performance in this regime.  That's what I was talking about in #2 of my list above.

PS Were you using dive flaps in your P-38?  Your problems in that plane sound a lot like what pilots of pre-dive flap P-38's described.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-21-2000).]

[Yeager]

Well Ill leave it alone then.  Saw something that struck me like a bolt of lightening so of course I was jizzed.  Saw it several more times and became concerned.

About the 38, I was with a dozen other 38s over malta and it was funny.  Everyone was saying "dont compress, dont compress" so what we had was a bunch of 38s at 20k+ flying circles over a bunch of 109s at 15-18k, no one was diving down.  I suppose thats a pretty accurate reflection of theater combat in ww2  hehe.......

I think I was 75% fuel full, clean airfoil and started to compress about 5 degrees nose down at around 20k.  Managed to pull out of it ok then hit the dive flaps with throttle on idle, slowed down some then nosed around and under thinking I was safe to get on a 109 about 2k below and 3k in front flying a straight course away from me.  I immediately went into a compression with idle throttle and could not get out of it.  Just laughed as I bailed out.  Thats the way its been for me recently.

I dont know.  This past few weeks has been the worst for me in AH.  Either I suck more now than I ever have (very possible!), or the product is showing some dynamic flaws as a result of natural maturity...mebbe both.  I just dont know.  I have enough time on stick where this shouldnt be happening to me but it is.

Yeager

[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 10-21-2000).]

[funked]

Hey I could be wrong...

<S> Everybody on this thread.  Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I dislike you.

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

Funked that wasnt no lead turn. There was no real vertical or horizontal seperation, and he only pulled around well after we passed. The thing is he kept more E and more speed in his hard tight vertical turn than the G10 did in a gentle climb.

thanks GRUNHERZ

[easymo]

 Watched the film. looked like that spit suicided to me. Pulled up right in front of 4 20 mm,s with unlimited ammo, Duh.

[StSanta]

I gotta agree with Westy and grunherz, and those two are both quite good sticks.

I've had 420mph's merges where I've dived on a lower con, head to head, avoided the HO only to see 'im do an immelman, come over the top, dive down on me and get to within gun range.

Also the "slower plane syndrome" is very much there - yesterday, shamus asked me "are you on wep?" Started out close and at same speed, I quickly pulled away. It happens with JG54 too. Kinda cool in a way, since this models aircrafts having a bad day  .


------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Robert]

 

Originally posted by bowser:
Robert,

Are you saying there was something wrong in the films?
I saw the Nik dive to gain speed, pull up into an immelman at over 300, coming over the top he was about 200 with you about 1k away.  He then dove to gain speed was about 300 again when you went straight up, about 1k away.  He followed you up, and when he shot you he was struggling to keep his nose up at about 50 mph, ready to stall...with you about D400-500.  It was nice flying on the edge and shooting on his part..I didn't see anything "uber".
People are saying these guys are gaining on you after they turn hard and you fly level not losing any e..I don't think this qualifies as an example of that.

bowser

im saying he made a 5g reversal 500 ft below me with little or no lead and followed my 1.5g zoom clinb with both planes at very close to almost equal e-state except for two things. he had 500 ft less alt and a 5g 180 degree turn. which is very obvious if he had been at the same alt as i he would have been 500d closer when he shot me which means he lost no e what so ever in a 180 degree 5 + g turn .


RWY

[bowser]

Robert,

If I understand you, you're basically saying he pulled a high g reverse and lost no E. You might be confusing E with speed.  He lost speed on the immelman, going from about 300 to 200 over the top..but his E was fairly constant as he traded speed for alt and back again.  After the immelman he was able to trade that alt back for speed as he dove slightly.  Basically you zoomed without enough distance between the two of you.  When you started your zoom, you were only about 1K ahead of him...and the angle of climb was probably different for each also.  

bowser