Warp City... Petition to move server

[dudedog]

This is also posted in the internet connnectivity forum, but I felt I should mention it here also.

I hate to tell anyone how to do their job... BUT...
It's pretty obvious HTC is suffering bandwidth issues, there are ISPs that could handle the AH server and 10,000+ concurrent AH downloads. Even if their particular ISP has enough bandwidth, it's obvious their peering partners have serious problems (cough *sprint*). Please consider a move to a bigger ISP, exodus, abovenet, and navisite come to mind(yes I live in the bay area   ). Maybe a 1 week trial? Come on guys, the HTC crew and AH ROCK, don't let something relatively simple(switching ISP's) bring down the level of quality you can have.

[This message has been edited by dudedog (edited 09-13-2000).]

[Hangtime]

Something's up.. it's warpy as hell in the arena, gettin into the sim sometimes takes an eon, and overall it's apparent that it's not as good as it was; and it sure don't seem that it's gettin any damn better.

Hang

[Ripsnort]

Move this  to  ==
SUPPORT FORUM?? INTERNET CONNECTIVITY

Skuzzy is a whiz, and can answer any questions you have about the server I believe..

In regards to your response below, nice edit after I posted this  

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-14-2000).]

[dudedog]

Rip read my post before u respond, sheesh

[Nath-BDP]

HTC needs to upgrade to T3s IMO.

[Westy]

 You have any idea how much a T3 (let alone plural) cost per month?
 
 -Westy

[Nath-BDP]

 

You have any idea how much a T3 (let alone plural) cost per month?

Would you rather stay on a warpy server while paying $30 a month? Whats your point?
Are you HTC's accountant or somethin?

Its not just in MA, in several special events i've run, people experience ALOT of warp when theres alot of aircraft in close proximity. Several mini-warps when fighters approach a group of bombers, etc.

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 09-13-2000).]

[AKSeaWulfe]

 

Originally posted by Westy:
You have any idea how much a T3 (let alone plural) cost per month?
 
 -Westy

If you get it from a homeless person it costs ya 2$ plus a lunch from Mickey Ds!! Of course you only get about 2 ft of wire they cut away from some office.....
:-)
-SW

[Westy]

 No, not HTC accountant wise ass. I asked a simple question.

 My point is your opinion might change should the cost of your monthly subscription be increased substantialy to cover the much higher network costs.

 Whipping out an "upgrade to T3" when you have no idea what Skuzzy/HTC is or will do to improve things doesn't help at all.

  -Westy


[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 09-13-2000).]

[dudedog]

Actually I do know what big bandwidth costs. And generally you do not "buy" a T3 or sumsuch. You put your server in an ISP that has OC48's or better. This way you can handle peak loads i.e. new updates without having to spend a huge sum for dedicated bandwidth you won't use most of the time. To put this into some "real" numbers. My company hosts the worlds most popular music site. I guarentee we use more bandwidth than HTC. Total bandwidth costs 5-10k/month. I figure that my $30/month more than covers my share of a big fat connection. And again... It may not be HTC's ISP's lack of bandwidth, it's the fact that their peering partners are always having problems. It doesn't matter how much bandwidth you have if the people you're connecting to can't handle it. This is not a bash on HTC or their ISP, I just think they should try a server elsewhere and see if it helps.

[indian]

For your info I doubt you can get better connection then they have now. they are less then 100ft from swithing station and GTE (now Verizon) is very big leader in the internet. Moving servers wont help any. If there is a problem skuzzy will fix it. Never seen anything like him, hes little isp and takes on giants like sprint and @home.

------------------
Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
Indians Home page were links to help pages can be found.
Indian's Homepage

[dudedog]

Indian, you are saying there is no way it can be better? Uh, yeah, can I have a hit of what you're smoking?

[jihad]

 Up to version 1.04 connections have been great,mine is consistently 130-150 ms 9 hops and 0 packet loss, I see warps and get accused of warping when I do high G rolling evasive manuevers.

 Its possible the new code/FM is contributing to the micro warps-give HTC and Scuzzy a bit more time and I`m sure connects will be solid again.

[Westy]

 I logged on three times last night. FWIW I do NOT travel through Sprints internet at all and I do not see any lag or warps.  I bet alot of you folks might be.

 -Westy
 

[Skuzzy]

Interesting thread.  dudedog, I posted a response to your initial post in the Internet Support forum.

And you all are pretty much correct.  Dale and I have been talking about the warps.  The connections to the Internet are still running at much higher throughputs than before the 1.04 release.  We still know this is download traffic and it is starting to subside.
For this reason, it would not be prudent to go off half cocked and start making changes, but we are looking at it.

dudedog, I did not post this part to the Internet forum, as it was not stated there.  An ISP that has an OC48 has it for a reason.  There is not ISP in this business that will put in an OC48, when they only need a DS3.  In other words, a good ISP, will run thier connections up to 70% average bandwidth utilization, before incrementing thier bandwidth to the Internet.
Any sudden changes in the amount of bandwidth the ISP has, will cause congestion.  This can be witnessed easily by most users/clients.  Let's see, Sprint has an OC192 going to Chicago, which during prime-time hours, takes a packet of data about 1 second to traverse.

No ISP can nor will accomodate for a worst case bandwidth scenario.  You have to accomodate for the average case, if you want to stay in business.  I have another client who moves more data/month that HTC does, but it is sustained and accomodations for that are made.  As a result, the client is a happy camper.
HTC has plenty of bandwidth for the servers, based on what they typically need.  Right now, the need is much higher and is a wore case scenario, which is trailing off.  It has not gotten back to the level it was before the 1.04 release, but it is headed in that direction.

Long term, no one knows what we (HTC/AppLInk) are up to and it would not be prudent to discuss those plans until they are finalized.

Doing anything in haste is simply not the correct course to take.  An example, complaints about warpiness and dropped conntions were running pretty high about 1 or 2 months ago.  Roughly 3 weeks ago, we made an upgrade to the Main arena connection router.  We have been watching and studying the impact of that change.  Once the upgrade was done, virtually all the complaints ceased.
We beleive the upgrade accomplished what we wanted it to do, so we are know looking to upgrade the Alt arena connection router.

As far as doing what we can do, I try hard to insure a presence in the main arena, for no other reason than to listen to what folks are saying about connects.  Once in a while I go ahead and fly, but my primary reason for being there is to hear what the pilots are saying about connects.  That feedback is invaluable for me and HTC.

Let me put it to you this way.  Would you be a happy client of your ISP, if all of a sudden your server could only deliver 2K/sec to your connecting clients?  
The current release of 1.04 would have required a full OC3 to deliver the download to all the connections that were made.  And the download rate for that would have capped at 12KBytes/sec.  If this would have been on your ISP, your server would have been strangled.  Would you then switch ISP's?

------------------
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net