Author Topic: Putin: War aim not achieved  (Read 643 times)

Offline hawk220

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« on: April 12, 2003, 08:42:42 AM »
Putin: War aim not achieved
Saturday, April 12, 2003 Posted: 5:28 AM EDT (0928 GMT)


 
ST PETERSBURG, Russia -- Russian President Vladimir Putin has accused the U.S.-led coalition of having failed to achieve its war aim, to disarm Iraq.

As television pictures showed the collapse of Saddam Hussein's vestiges of power, Putin was quoted by Reuters as saying: "The goal of war -- to disarm Iraq -- has not been achieved. ... We must never mix notions. No one liked the Iraqi regime apart from Saddam Hussein, but this is not the point."

But Putin, who is playing host to France's President Jacques Chirac and Germany's Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, said he welcomed the fall of Saddam's dictatorship. Iraq has dominated the two-days of talks in St Petersburg.

Putin, speaking for the first time since the apparent collapse of Saddam's regime, said the U.N. should play a pivotal role in the reconstruction of Iraq, and repeated his call for future disputes to be settled by international law rather than military means.

"The task of restoring the political, economic and social system of Iraq is enormous," Chirac said according to The Associated Press news agency. "Only the United Nations has the legitimacy to do that.

The Russian president said the model for Iraq's reconstruction should be in line with the rebuilding of Afghanistan and reiterated his view that the United Nations should be central to this process.

Earlier in the week, U.S. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz said the United Nations "can't be in charge," when he was addressing a U.S. Senate panel.

CNN's Jill Dougherty in Moscow said Putin was playing a "balancing act" with the U.S..

"He does not want to make relations any worse than they already are," she said.

"We heard from Putin last night (Friday). He said it is good that a tyrannical regime has gone, but that it cannot be a template for around the world."

Putin said he was open to discussing a proposal by Wolfowitz which would see Moscow writing off the estimated $8 billion owed to it by Iraq, Reuters reported.

Wolfowitz said Thursday that Russia, France and Germany could contribute to rebuilding Iraq by agreeing Baghdad did not have to repay the tens of billions of dollars in loans taken out by Saddam.

"On the whole the proposal is understandable and legitimate," Putin was quoted as saying.

"In any event, Russia has no objection to such a proposal."

France and Germany were less keen on the idea, simply saying it was too early to discuss debt.

Russia is believed to be owed up to $12 billion, with France owed about $8 billion and Germany more than $4 billion.

Putin is also likely to face objections to agreeing to the proposal from the Russian parliament and his finance minister.

Offline lazs2

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2003, 10:31:19 AM »
LOL!   195 countries in committe, trying to do something like the Marshal plan.  

Hell... the thought of the un doing anything other than handing out packages and sucking up money is laughable.
lazs

Offline Nash

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2003, 10:35:30 AM »
You're so.... negative. :P

j/k Lazs ...(will get back to you on the question you had in another thread... just been way too pressed for time over the last few days).

Offline lazs2

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2003, 10:41:58 AM »
yep nash... I was serious about the former question..  You know how I like to pidgeonhole people and it is allway good to find that it works across borders too.  
lazs

Offline Nash

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2003, 10:49:37 AM »
I doubt it will be a problem. :)

(I did think about the reply... it's just that your question begs for some kind of bio... just makes me feel weird, ya know?...but...)

Offline Udie

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2003, 11:13:18 AM »
since when do we let our enemies set our war goals?

Offline Boroda

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2003, 11:46:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Udie
since when do we let our enemies set our war goals?


Since you declared that the agression started to enforce the UN resolution 1441.

Well, somone at last sad that we are enemies again. I mean "coalition" of "liberators" and the rest of the world.

About Putin: I start to respect him more and more. Very reasonable politics, trying to be less emotional despite of almost hysterical anti-americanism 3/4 of Russians suffer from after the agression started.

I don't like Putin, I didn't vote for him (in fact I voted for a medium-right liberal candidate, Yavlinsky), but I see that he does a good job during the Iraqi crisis. At least he stays sane.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2003, 11:55:07 AM »
BTW boroda how do you like voting when there is more than one candidate? :D

Offline Boroda

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2003, 12:20:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
BTW boroda how do you like voting when there is more than one candidate? :D


Same stupid crap as in Soviet times :(

"Re-election of president Putin is scheduled on March, 2004". Anyway, there is no alternative. Commies are idiots, and will refuse from power even if they'll win the elections because they simply don't know what to do. Right-wing liberals are the "big money" party, pro-Western and openly saying things like "we don't need so many people here in Russia" Only "dem-schizoid" people vote for them. Yavlinsky is a "free-market" theoretician, with absolutely no experience, but at least he admits that we need social programms and some government regulation of monopolies. He was the only reasonable politician on the elections, but if I really thought my voice will help him win over Putin - I'd better vote against all.

BTW, 90% of the people who voted for Putin couldn't explain why they did so...

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2003, 12:26:10 PM »
:)

I't will take a while for your country to grow out of the communist mindset but I think when it does the Russian people will do great..  Even with all my insults to you and russia I think there is a lot of potential - but you have to move on from communism and the attitudes and pideful boasting that came out of the cold war..

Offline Boroda

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2003, 12:29:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
:)

I't will take a while for your country to grow out of the communist mindset but I think when it does the Russian people will do great..  Even with all my insults to you and russia I think there is a lot of potential - but you have to move on from communism and the attitudes and pideful boasting that came out of the cold war..


GH, it's not "communist mindset", it's "orthodox mindset"...

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2003, 12:33:57 PM »
Now I gotta be careul because one of you russians accused me of hating orthodox church..

Do you mean "orthodox mindset" like resisting change and just going with the most stable and continouus power?

If so thats largely what i mean by communist mindse where you had no choice and simply got used to things not chnging and being very fixed.

Offline Rasker

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2003, 12:37:00 PM »
yeah democracy took quite a while to grow in the United States even though we had legacy of the Magna Charta, the English Civil War, the "Glorious Revolution" of 1688.  Russia will get there, given half a chance; it's just a matter of people getting experience as citizens of a democracy.

Btw, Boroda, Yavlinsky would be my choice if I were voting in your elections.  I've heard him referred to as "Russia's Jack Kemp [Dole's running mate in 1996]".  Too bad that ideas are currently losing the competition with patronage and the status quo.  That will change, I hope.

Offline Boroda

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2003, 12:51:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Do you mean "orthodox mindset" like resisting change and just going with the most stable and continouus power?

If so thats largely what i mean by communist mindse where you had no choice and simply got used to things not chnging and being very fixed.


Well, Orthodox mentality means more community-oriented, maybe more conservative, you're probably right to some extent, and respecting the personality of the leader. As Zhukov said to Nikita about Stalin: "There was a cult, but there was a Personality".

The negative side is that it's almost impossible to get many things done without serious pressure. "The peasant will not cross himself until the thunder strikes".

Other thing is that many things here are based on personal relations, on the word and deed, not on material benefit.

It's too complicated for me to explain the thing that I don't understand myself :) especially in foreign language. I only want to say that people here didn't change much since 1913.

Offline Boroda

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Putin: War aim not achieved
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2003, 12:57:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rasker
Btw, Boroda, Yavlinsky would be my choice if I were voting in your elections.  I've heard him referred to as "Russia's Jack Kemp [Dole's running mate in 1996]".  Too bad that ideas are currently losing the competition with patronage and the status quo.  That will change, I hope.


Yavlinsky is only a theoritician, he emerged in public in maybe 1988, with his "500 days" programm of economical reconstructionof USSR. None of his ideas was ever tested in practice. To me he's only a person a little right from center, focusing on social programms and free market at the same time. Not like ultra-rights with their free market ad absurdum.

From 3 candidates who got noticeable number of votes he's probably my choice. At least he had some kind of agenda and economical programm, a "to do" list that didn't have only "salary for budget employees and military in time" like Putin or "we'll fight our capitalist thiefs and declare war on USA" like commies.