Author Topic: A point of Reason (Read 1843 times)

Dowding · « **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2003, 07:41:39 AM »

Did we steal it? Yes.

Does that justify murder and terror, 300 years later? No.

Should the British cede it to Ireland? No. The majority of those in Northern Ireland want to remain part of the UK. We are NOT an occupying power.

Dowding · « **Reply #16 on:** April 15, 2003, 07:45:17 AM »

BTW, are you suggesting that those who did the ethnic cleansing before 1776 were all British redcoats who promptly went home, taking their supporters with them, leaving the altruistic and thoroughly Christian settlers behind?

Toad · « **Reply #17 on:** April 15, 2003, 08:05:36 AM »

Not at all. The French and Spanish have the red on their hands as well.

We have our own history here. I admit that and always have.

As I've said many times before just about every place out there has been "stolen" from somebody at one time or another.

Say, has anyone ever done a demographic on the voters in that referendum? How many of the "remain part of the UK" voters have Scottish ancestry? Wonder how the vote would turn out if it was limited to those solely of Irish ancestry?

I wonder what the vote would be on the "whiteman" if we polled only the Indians?

I'm sure you see the point? You stole it fair and square and now it's time to move on.

Dowding · « **Reply #18 on:** April 15, 2003, 08:08:50 AM »

I shouldn't care anyway. I've got a German surname, and the other side is probably French.

Seeker · « **Reply #19 on:** April 15, 2003, 08:25:25 AM »

That's the part you never seem to be able to admit. You guys stole Northern Ireland.

Here's the bit Americans never quite seem to grasp:

It's perfectly true that England stole Ireland. However, The Irish got themselves together and threw us out in the last centuary.

The bit we've got left; Northern Ireland contains a large majority of Protestant Irish who do not want to be part of Eire. Time and time again it's been democraticaly demonstrated that that province wants to stay in the UK. It's a different place, with a different ethnic and tribal tradition than Eire, however much it seems the same from the outside. Rather like Ontario and Quebec.

Paradoxicaly enough, the Brit army is there (originaly, at least) to protect the Catholic minority from the depravations of the Protestant majority; who'd cheerfully eat their young to get at the Catholics (or would @1970).

The IRA in Northern Ireland that's enjoyed so much support from misty eyed Irish-Americans is the losing half of the civil war in Eire after independance; Dublin doesn't want those guys back either. It's the Irish version of the "Eratz Isreal" crowd; that's what all the bollocks about a "united Ireland" is. Eire's perfectly united; and Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. The UK: Love it or leave it (you don't even need a green card; we're all Euro's); just please don't blow up it's school children.

And the big picture is it's all bloody irrelevant. Inside fifteen years they (we) will all be paying taxes to Brussels, not London.

In effect, IRA supporters aren't supporting a noble struggle of national self determination; they're supporting a nasty internicene war over which locale town hall get's to set the parking fine.

Bit Wacko, really.

Martlet · « **Reply #20 on:** April 15, 2003, 09:05:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Seeker

Here's the bit Americans never quite seem to grasp:

I

It's not that we don't grasp it, it's that most of us could care less.

Seeker · « **Reply #21 on:** April 15, 2003, 09:17:38 AM »

It's not that we don't grasp it, it's that most of us could care less.

So why support terrorists? Those who would murder your allies government and children?
Why should we care when you suffer terrorist attack?

Why should we not harbour terrorists that attack you?

Martlet · « **Reply #22 on:** April 15, 2003, 09:25:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Seeker

Why should we not harbour terrorists that attack you?

Go for it. You'll get the same as Afghanistan and Iraq.

some of this

Hortlund · « **Reply #23 on:** April 15, 2003, 09:39:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hangtime
i flat refuse to look upon a nation that elects as it's chief politician a genuine bomb tossing terrorist as an ally. I see no diffrence between charon and arafat. None.

[/b]
Could you elaborate on this a bit please?
Who is the elected chief politician? (Im guessing Charon)
but who the he** is the bomb tossing terrorist ally?

And if you dont see any difference between Charon and Arafat you either need better glasses or a better education.

You simply cannot know enough about the conflict to make a statement like that, because I know you aint dumb.

Quote

Instead, I'm lookin at isreal with american eyeballs.. peace and stability are my new watchwords.. those that threaten it are american adversarys.

[/b]
Yes...and with those watchwords...in what way did the war on Afghanistan and Iraq promote peace and stability?

Quote

A peace treaty was signed. Time to enforce it.. at the point of a gun if necessary. Every settlement raised under Charons proxy is another bomb earmarked for an american building, thanks to our blind support for a regime in israel that sponsors blatant racisim.

Well, the problem is there was no peace treaty signed. There was something called the "Oslo accord" that was signed. Problem is the Oslo accord has lots of pesky paragraphs along the lines of "the question of Jerusalem, water rights, settlments, refugees, etc etc (yeah, pretty much everything they disagree on) shall be settled at a later time). Clinton, Barak and Arafat tried to settle those questions, but failed miserably. At that point, Arafat declared "Intifada v 2.0" and the new wave of stone throwing kids/suicide bombers appeared.

And again...who is Charons proxy? And where is the racism that Israel sponsors?

AKIron · « **Reply #24 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:05:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding
Santa has answered many of your points. For me, you still haven't countered the fundamental point I was making. Each nation looks after its own interests.

You keep repeating this Dowding. As if a nation that looks after it's own self-interest is beyond reproach.

Furthermore, if that nation's self-interest blocks a more powerful nation's self-interest, guess which nation gets their self-interest d**k knocked in the dirt.

Dowding · « **Reply #25 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:19:46 AM »

You miss the point. A nation that looks after it's own self-interest is beyond reproach, from countries that not so long ago were doing the exact same thing.

Quote

Furthermore, if that nation's self-interest blocks a more powerful nation's self-interest, guess which nation gets their self-interest d**k knocked in the dirt.

Yeah, and...?

AKIron · « **Reply #26 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:38:20 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding
You miss the point. A nation that looks after it's own self-interest is beyond reproach, from countries that not so long ago were doing the exact same thing.

Yeah, and...?

Well, by your logic, Hitler was looking after his country's self-interest by ridding it of the Jews. Still beyond reproach?

France is about to get dirty.

Dowding · « **Reply #27 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:51:11 AM »

You again miss my point. Did the Allies practise genocide? Plan to murder an entire race? Nope. Consequently, I'd say they were on firm ground as far as criticizing the Nazi doctrine goes.

AKIron · « **Reply #28 on:** April 15, 2003, 11:09:23 AM »

Dowding, when did the US illegally sell arms to Iraq? When did the US vehemently oppose the ouster of Saddam Hussein knowing well the nature of his oppression?

Are you saying the US did these things? This is why France will be boycotted by many here in the US.

SLO · « **Reply #29 on:** April 15, 2003, 11:14:20 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
Dowding, when did the US illegally sell arms to Iraq? When did the US vehemently oppose the ouster of Saddam Hussein knowing well the nature of his oppression?

Are you saying the US did these things? This is why France will be boycotted by many here in the US.

funny you should look in your own backyard.....

some of your own companies had dealings with Irak....boycott them too....