Author Topic: Sustained turning rate test results (Read 717 times)

TimRas · « **on:** April 17, 2003, 09:47:09 AM »

I have made some tests offline to determine the sustained turning performance of some fighters. My original purpose was to measure turning rates of the current German-Soviet planeset in the CT arena. Then I decided to get also the results of some of the more popular planes in MA.

Testing procedure: Planes were at sea level, speed about 200mph indicated. Turn was initiated, and after one full turn the timing was started. Time of 6-9 full 360 deg. turns was measured, and the average sustained turn rate in degrees/second was calculated. Planes had 50% fuel, except for the P-51D where 25% gives about same endurance.

In N1K-J, P-51D, and F4U-1C two notches of flaps was used, although I didn't determine the optimum flap settings for these planes.

I used stall delimiter to get more consistent results. The effect of switching off stall delimiter in La-7 was 0.5 dps increase in turning rate. I tested also the effect of full fuel tanks, the reduction in La-7 was 1.2dps.

[LIST=1]
N1K-J.......26.3dps
Spit IX.....25.5
Bf 109F-4...20.2
La-7........19.9
La-5FN......19.7
Bf 109G-2...19.5
Yak9-U......18.9
Bf 109G-10..18.8
P-51D.......18.1
Typhoon.....18.0
Fw190A-5....17.4
F4U-1C......17.4
Fw190A-8....16.1
[/LIST=1]
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Urchin · « **Reply #1 on:** April 17, 2003, 01:01:45 PM »

Matches up pretty close to my non-testing experience.

I will say that the P-51 should be turning better than that though, I'm not sure what the best turn speed is for it but with flaps down it'll out turn a 109G2 and an La-7.

Furball · « **Reply #2 on:** April 17, 2003, 01:59:10 PM »

depends on pilot ability urchin, all the p51's i meet i can outturn in my la7. but im sure you could outturn me in it. For an average pilot i would say they can turn an la7 much faster than p51 at those speeds

would like to see some high speed results, i find f4u very manouverable at high speed.

dtango · « **Reply #3 on:** April 17, 2003, 06:04:16 PM »

Co-E and below 10K alt, I've never been able to outturn an La-7 in a P-51D even with 2 notches flaps, especially in a sustained turn.

Maybe it's me but having done some E-M analysis on these 2 a/c specifically I'm not surprised at all at the results. Instantaneous turn performance, the P-51D may get close to the La-7 using flaps, but it's no question when it comes to sustained turn performance since the La-7 has a signifcant T/W advantage over the P-51D.

Of course I haven't done E-M analysis with really disporportionate diffferences in fuel load / weight such as having the P-51D with 25% or less fuel and the La-7 at near 100% fuel for instance. Weight is a huge contributor in impacting turn performance.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Kweassa · « **Reply #4 on:** April 17, 2003, 06:26:50 PM »

Looks right, but in my case I'm surprised by the G-2 and the La-7. I always thought the La-7 was a bit poorer, and the G-2 was a bit better. Guess I'll have to rethink it in the future

Karnak · « **Reply #5 on:** April 17, 2003, 06:59:05 PM »

I have on multiple occasions out turned P-51s in my Mossie. I have never out turned an La-7 in my Mossie.

Kweassa · « **Reply #6 on:** April 17, 2003, 07:24:40 PM »

Right.

I always thought that La-7s were initially poor turners, sucking in sustained turns... and only with some speed that they can maintain a good turn.

But compared with the F-4, which boasts a very good turn capability(barring the exceptional turn fighters like the Spits, N1Ks and Zeros, Hurricanes... ), I don't think there's anyway that the La-7 can be considered even 'average'.. It's a fairly good turner...!

J_A_B · « **Reply #7 on:** April 17, 2003, 09:56:45 PM »

Remember that chart shows only turn rate and not radius. If the radius is small enough, a slower plane can still get inside a faster one which is how P-51D's occasionally out-turn LA7's.

J_A_B

TheManx · « **Reply #8 on:** April 17, 2003, 11:56:38 PM »

I almost always outturn La7's in both P51's and Mossies.

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 18, 2003, 03:28:14 AM »

What a crap P38 outturns em all with one hand free to drink beer while killing the poor dweebs.

OIO · « **Reply #10 on:** April 18, 2003, 10:08:47 AM »

Bug, not everyone knows to lower the throttle on the engine that you're turning on...

now shut up and stop giving away our secrets. Sheesh.!

F4UDOA · « **Reply #11 on:** April 18, 2003, 10:56:30 AM »

Those turn rates are porked if they are right.

In AFDU test the Typh can't outturn a P-47 much less a FW190.

And the 190 can't turn with a P-51 that can't stay with an F4U.

WTF

Neil Stirling1 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 18, 2003, 11:10:08 AM »

At 20 000ft.

Neil.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #13 on:** April 18, 2003, 11:19:53 AM »

FYI,

I have some others I can paste for verification. If you have one just make sure the weights are listed otherwise the chart is no good.

140Knots = 161MPH at 12,000LBS 3G's Kapish?

Kweassa · « **Reply #14 on:** April 18, 2003, 11:02:14 PM »

I always knew Typhs and Temps turn too good!!

Pork them!