Explain this to me

[Catching Spies]

I know the internet in some cases can alter some of the game play however I hope someone can explain this to me like I'm in the third-grade.  

Several days ago I was flying in a LA-7 at 10k when I noticed a P51 at  6.0 behind me the P51 was maybe 2k higher. The P51 sets its sights on and here it comes. I go into a slight dive,(P51 is at 5.0 behind) engage WEP get my speed up to 475knots increasing to 500+ knots. I noticed the P51 is gaining on me so I go nose down a little more speed now at 525 knots and increasing (no turning) just straight line for home slowly the P51 is about to over take me which in time it does the top speed I reach is over 550 knots.

Speeds being about equal in the dive my quesion is: How can this occur? it defyes mathmatics...

I then cut my engine  while at 550 knots (I know the P51 has to at full throttle, WEP, trimed out) pull up slighty and turn hard left when the P51 gets within 2.0 behind me speed drops quickly to 275 knots and dropping fast. Well guess what .... the P51 is right there still behind me. My question is: How can this be possible?

Thanks for responding,

[Apache]

Originally posted by Catching Spies
I know the internet in some cases can alter some of the game play however I hope someone can explain this to me like I'm in the third-grade.  

Several days ago I was flying in a LA-7 at 10k when I noticed a P51 at  6.0 behind me the P51 was maybe 2k higher. The P51 sets its sights on and here it comes. I go into a slight dive,(P51 is at 5.0 behind) engage WEP get my speed up to 475knots increasing to 500+ knots. I noticed the P51 is gaining on me so I go nose down a little more speed now at 525 knots and increasing (no turning) just straight line for home slowly the P51 is about to over take me which in time it does the top speed I reach is over 550 knots.

Speeds being about equal in the dive my quesion is: How can this occur? it defyes mathmatics...

I then cut my engine  while at 550 knots (I know the P51 has to at full throttle, WEP, trimed out) pull up slighty and turn hard left when the P51 gets within 2.0 behind me speed drops quickly to 275 knots and dropping fast. Well guess what .... the P51 is right there still behind me. My question is: How can this be possible?

Thanks for responding,

Simple. You mis-judged his E state. Obviously speeds weren't equal. That and he most probably "cut" the corner.

[Arfann]

Since he had 2k on you to begin with, not too surprising he stayed with you in the dive.

Not sure I could do it myself, but there are no doubt pony drivers who could chop throttle and cross controls to match your decileration, then yo-yo to stay with you.

[MANDOBLE]

LOL, these La7 dweebs never change ...

[Steve]

Well, you say you first noticed the pony at 6.0 behind you, slightly higher.  What if the pony had been diving on you prior to that?
If the pony is already diving in, he could be goin 500+ while you are still at cruise.  Sounds like you're assuming the pony was in level cruise when you notcied him.


Pull up slightly and hard left..chop throttle and slow to 275. That's really not a difficult task.....pony chops throttle, dumps flaps.  If he gets to close to your overshoot he could displace some of the closure with a barrel roll or two.Chopping throttle to stay saddled up could be a risky move for the pony because he has unzipped his fly.  If he matches your speed, and then misses, you'll be able to use your fantastic acceleration to wriggle out of the jam.  Also, you took him low and he surrendered a lot of his E to stay on your 6.  You may may have died but if you had help in the area, the pony put himself in a pickle.

[Karnak]

I think he means he throttled back, not turned it off.  Most people use "cut my engine" to mean idled their engine I think.  Don't jump on him over some useless side note unless you are absolutely positive you know what he means.

[Pongo]

Your question seems to be why is the Pony better in a dive then the La7.
The answer is that they are different planes.  I am not supprised at all that the Pony is better at keeping speed in a dive then the La7.  As to the end game, Why shouldnt he be able to match your move? The Pony has great flaps and a great view of the war...Why should he not be able to track you through such a basic manuver.
You should have imediatly turned into him. By the time you merged you might have cut the alt difference down to 1k or so.
If you fly aggressivly and he stays to duke it out that is all the advantage you need in an la7 vs the average pony pilot.
If he knows his stuff giving him 1k and some speed at the merge might be a mistake. But diving for home from a pony with 2k on you 6000 yards away from you just doenst really make sence to me.
At 10 k He cant rope you. He cant run you down. He cant dive away from you unless he had tones of E on you to start with.
You should definalty have played more aggressive.
Turning on your back in a dog fight is ususally not the way to win it.
Im not a honcho by any means. But I am in the game to fight, I think you passed up a good opertunity to enjoy the game. One on one in two excellent planes.

[dracon]

Well, to each there own opinnion.  The 339th is a Pony squadron and I have been flying the Pony in SIMMs for more than 6 years.  If you accurately described the situation what happened is near impossible.  There's a coupla pilots out there that might do it but yo-yoing and the like is not gonna get it done by most pilots.  I wouldn't have even bothered to go after you.  At 475 + in a dive most Pony's start to shake themselves apart.
If it was daddy= or --yt-- or a hand full of other Pony Pilots you were already dead

I would hazard to Guess:

1. He had more Alt on you than you thought.
2. He had less fuel than you (lighter).
3. You were too worried about him and looked back too much causing your wings to wobble and nose to bounce thus some of your "E" was lost.  If you're gonna run then run don't look back until you're a sector away or on the Deck.  Nothing discourages a chase like a enema that's diving and going to cost all your E and prolly result in nothing more than a long climb back up.

Once you were sure of his intennt, why didn't you fight him?

Bet it's a "Blue Moon" before that happens to you again.

Regards,

[gofaster]

Originally posted by Arfann
Since he had 2k on you to begin with, not too surprising he stayed with you in the dive.

Not sure I could do it myself, but there are no doubt pony drivers who could chop throttle and cross controls to match your decileration, then yo-yo to stay with you.

Yes.  And I can do it in a Yak9U, too.  Rudder right, roll left, change prop pitch.  LA-7s have horrible deceleration anyway so its not so hard.  In a stallfight, the LA-7 is at a disadvantage against a Mustang anyway.

[Karnak]

Odepius,

You and MANDOBLE both jump him.  And your follow up didn't ask him if he'd turned his engine off or not, you asked him why he'd turned his engine off instead of simply throttling down.  Your stated assumption was that he had turned his engine off.

And MANDOBLE is, well, MANDOBLE.

[slimm50]

Man, sounds like whoever was driving th Pony was in almost ideal position: not too much alt; high E state; good manouvering room; prolly not another enemy close by. I dream of those setups. Th Pony's my favorite ride, and I'm no uber fighter pilot, but I too have come to appreciate the Pony's sterling qualities in that situatuation: perfect setup for BnZ. Once he (the enemy) has made his first turn all Pony has to do is maintain E, zoom up and keep harrassing prey 'till it becomes a sitting duck. At least, that's what my dreams go like:D

[slimm50]

Originally posted by Oedipus
... So holster your pea shooter McNugget.

Oed

ROTLMAO..."McNugget". That's too funny. Where'd that come from?

[WldThing]

Originally posted by Arfann
Not sure I could do it myself, but there are no doubt pony drivers who could chop throttle and cross controls to match your decileration, then yo-yo to stay with you.

Dont have to Yo-Yo just chop throttle.  Its quite easy to do, and i do it in the MA many many times, it catches the enemy off guard every single time its done.

[J_A_B]

Catching Spies--

What you describeis perfectly possible.  Essentially you played the fight right into the P-51 driver's hands, and the guy in the 51 apparently knew what he was doing.

First off, the P-51 can dive quite well.  Given a 2K alt advantage, it WILL catch an LA7 and the LA7, despite being faster at low altitudes, will nto pull away unless in a prolonged tail chase.  So it comes as no surprise to me that the 51 could close the distance.

One thing the P-51 does NOT do well is remain stable in these high speed dives--it becomes rather upset with the pilot and if he isn't careful the plane can rattle itself apart.

Second, the chop-throttle maneuver is not a good choice when you have an agressive Mustang on your 6, because the Mustang can slow down a lot faster than the LA7 can.  All the Mustang pilot had to do was cut throttle, drop as much flaps as possible, and give in a liberal amount of rudder--when you do this, the P-51 slows down as if it just dropped anchor and I use this tactic myself on occasion.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with losing in the situation you describe--the guy in the 51 started with the advantage and managed to win.


J_A_B

[Catching Spies]

Well okay.... I thought my question was a fair and honest attempt to get a answer from experienced players I did not know my question would bring out the loosers (Odepius, MANDOBLE ) that is true in any walk of life... well anyway on to more positive things.

When I said cut I meant zero rpm's or as it is described chop throttle (I didn't know there was lingo for this I was attempting to describe what happened). Second I'm not very good at this game I just had a question if it is possilbe (I didn't want to say the other player was cheating) I just wanted to know if if is possible to complete the manuaver, if it is and it has been said it is that is okay with me.

Thank you for responding,