Author Topic: Two interesting anecdote's from the war  (Read 2070 times)

Offline crabofix

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Two interesting anecdote's from the war
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2003, 11:43:39 PM »
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Originally posted by NUKE
Why dont you tell us all who is an equal opponent to the US.

Then explain to us why the US would have not been able to destroy China, North Korea and Russia together during the time of the Korean war.


Now, who ever is writing these jokes for you, this one was a little over the edge. You might concider to change him out

Offline Toad

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Two interesting anecdote's from the war
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2003, 11:44:09 PM »
their vehicle was hit by a shell from another British tank

So, are you now going to diss the Brits?
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2003, 11:48:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by crabofix
Now, who ever is writing these jokes for you, this one was a little over the edge. You might concider to change him out


In other words you will not answer the question: 1. who is an equal apponent to the US ?

2. Do you think the US would not have been able to destroy Russia, Korea and China during the Korean war?

Offline crabofix

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Two interesting anecdote's from the war
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2003, 12:00:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
In other words you will not answer the question: 1. who is an equal apponent to the US ?

2. Do you think the US would not have been able to destroy Russia, Korea and China during the Korean war?


I wont answer the Question, because you already know it, NUKE.
Theres more then 1 equel opponent, you named 2 of them.

Both china are very big contries, you didnt have the capability to take em both out in one blow, wich would be needed.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2003, 12:03:25 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
I'm not diss'n anyone. This blue-on-blue incident is just as tragical as any of the US incidents.

You don't get the point do you? The US forces have caused a lot more of these incidents than the Brits. In GWII the US had more troops than the UK, and the UK had more armor than the US. Still the US forces caused more blue-on-blue casualties in BOTH troops and armor (and aircraft). Friendly fire is pretty much unavoidable in major conflicts like this one, but IMHO the US forces have been more rekless than the British in GWII.

NUKE, you really need to have your head examined.


you seem to be stupid. If army A has 5 times as many troops as army B, you would expect army A to be repsonsible for more friendly fire incidents than army B.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2003, 12:09:26 AM »
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Originally posted by crabofix
I wont answer the Question, because you already know it, NUKE.
Theres more then 1 equel opponent, you named 2 of them.

Both china are very big contries, you didnt have the capability to take em both out in one blow, wich would be needed.


Ok. In the Korean war, the US had the capabilty to wipe Russia, China and North Korea off the map with our nuclear and conventional capabilties.


Even now, China TODAY could not even take Taiwan on it's own!


Today, who do you think is an equal power to the US? NOBODY!

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2003, 12:15:52 AM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
You seem to have a problem with arithmetic. Using your exampe, if army A causes 5 FF incidents army B should cause 1, statistically. How many incidents were caused by US and UK troops?

The UK had twice the number of tanks. Now that means that for every US armor FF incident the UK should cause two, statistically. How many were there?


so you are saying that only tanks can kill tanks? How old are you?

Maybe the tanks on the same battlefield might make a point, but how many US tanks were on the same battlefield as UK tanks?

Offline Toad

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« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2003, 12:19:59 AM »
No, it's you that doesn't get it.

Here's the total FF as of 8 April that involved British troops.

FRIENDLY FIRE INCIDENTS:

March 22: A British Royal Air Force (RAF) Tornado jet is accidentally shot down by a US Patriot missile. The Tornado's two crew are killed.

March 24: Two British soldiers are killed when their tank is mistakenly targeted by another British tank in southern Iraq.

March 28: A British soldier is killed and four others are injured in the region of Basra when a US A-10 ground attack aircraft fires on them.

3 Brits killed in 2 incidents by US forces. 2 Brits killed in one incident by British forces.

Now, the Patriot FF incident investigation AS YET hasn't turned anything up. But Patriot is a highly automated system dependent upon specific IFF procedures. So who knows whose "fault" this on is? I don't, do you?



As to "dissing"... I think I'm not the only one in this thread that feels that you most assuredly are.
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Offline crabofix

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Two interesting anecdote's from the war
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2003, 12:28:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I'm 29, mentaly I would say you are about 12.



Btw. The Soviets had nuclear capability in 1949, a US/Chinese/Soviet war would not have been winable.


Please, laugh, you soon will realize how great he is, as a comedian, just give him some time.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2003, 12:41:18 AM »
What's been established is that in FF events that are not highly automated, where there has been a human eye in the sight and a human finger on the trigger (excluding the Patriot) there have been two FF events that resulted in the deaths of British soldiers.

One by US hand, one by British hand.

So you're entire thesis on British troops dying to US FF is pretty weak.

There have been more FF incidents overall in this war by US hand, obviously.

Some of them are just the result of pure stupidity. One US officer, out of full uniform, just wearing a T-shirt and trousers rushed up to a recently abandoned Iraqi tank and climbed up on the turret. Other troops fired on him from a different location and killed him. That's an FF incident that simply can't be blamed on the guy pulling the trigger.

You like to lump them all together as "avoidable" if the shooter is professional but if you've done what you say you've done and been where you say you've been then you KNOW this stuff happens despite all the safeguards.

Everyone hates blue on blue. But to castigate an entire army as "unprofessional" over BoB  is ...... unprofessional.

And I think you know it. Combat decisions are often "monday morning quarterbacked" by the "armchair observers". In reality, most true soldiers know it can happen to anyone in certain circumstances.

But I think I see you for what you are now, so go ahead. :D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2003, 12:44:02 AM »
BTW, I think your overall comparison of totals is skewed by the campaign itself.

British troops did not have the same mission as US troops, nor did they operate over as large an area or in as great a number.

So I think it's not "apples to apples" as you apparently would like to paint it.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Dinger

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Two interesting anecdote's from the war
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2003, 01:27:40 AM »
incidentally:
okay, I'm a left-wing liberal academic who's still opposed to the war, based on the iraqis he's known.  The situation sucked before, and it's gonna suck in the future.

Still, I like to think I've got some understanding of military procedure.
And I've watched _WAY_too much TV.
I have no information either way on the RAF ****hook pilot. BUt I'd think we'd have heard of something before getting it in an email circular.

With respect to the other "CNN" incident.  I dunno -- the only military commentators who claimed to be former seals or something like that I've seen were on Fox TV.  For special forces, MSNBC stopped at General Dowding, and CNN's front guy was Wesley Clark.  Fox has Ollie North and a bunch of special forces grunts.  So, no, I have no idea what the second incident is about, and would be surprised if it occurred.  The closest CNN gets to that is Larry King, who brings in Andy McNab.

So, yeah, I call bull****.  Show me details, then I'll shut up.

Offline Suave

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Re: Two interesting anecdote's from the war
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2003, 02:18:36 AM »
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Originally posted by AndyH


 Yank 1: "They look to be ours - only US troops wear boots like those."

 Yank 2: "Indeed, and they appear to have the standard issue camouflage fatigues."

 Yank 3 (Delta Force): "I'm not sure - we'll have to get close-up images of them to be 100%. We'll definitely be able to tell from the shape of their Kevlar helmets if they're ours."

 


Why aren't these "yanks" speaking american ? When is the last time you heard an american talk like this ? When was the last time you hear US soldiers use terms like "kevlar helmet" or "camoflage fatigues" ? They don't .

Offline Furball

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Two interesting anecdote's from the war
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2003, 02:36:32 AM »
love the way americans get all pissed off if someone makes fun of em! :D

How the hell can you confuse a chinook with an iraqi helicopter? isn't it like the most recogniseable helicopter in the world?

And toad, i dont think anyone was questioning the effectiveness of the US troops in combat vs. the enemy.  The point is just they seem a little 'Gung Ho' or Trigger Happy, whereas the british forces seem to think first.
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Offline Arlo

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« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2003, 02:51:14 AM »
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Originally posted by Furball
love the way americans get all pissed off if someone makes fun of em! :D

How the hell can you confuse a chinook with an iraqi helicopter? isn't it like the most recogniseable helicopter in the world?

And toad, i dont think anyone was questioning the effectiveness of the US troops in combat vs. the enemy.  The point is just they seem a little 'Gung Ho' or Trigger Happy, whereas the british forces seem to think first.


That's it! I'm going to have to accidently shoot you now!