Change the Icons

[ebgb]

Our icon system showing plane type and distance should be changed.  It makes no sense to me that the plane type should be identified.  Part of ww2 ACM was in identifying enemy planes by coloration and adapting your manuevers to suit.  With our icon system, that identification occurs at d6.0 - dot range instead of a more realistic visual range.  It affects play balance in that anyone in a perk plane is immediately singled out.  It also unfairly benefits other planes like the Spit5 which shares the same icon as the spit9 and is often mistaken as one.  Same for the 109 series.  A benefit not given to all planes in the arena.  

I'd fly perk planes more often if it weren't for the fact I feel like I had a sh** magnet on my plane.  I'd fly the Ta152, or the SpitXIV a heck of a lot more.  Instead I accumulate perks by the hundreds, perks I'll never use.

Here's what I propose:  plane type icons be displayed only within d1.0 - or at whatever distance a planform view would easily distinguish a planes markings.  As in real life, ID should be made by a planes profile, and by its markings.  Keep the distance markers as this maintains the games playability, but lose the AC type markers and improve the play balance.



g

[Shane]

when computers can show me the detail that our good old eyeballs can, you might have a good suggestion.

[Toad]

Read this and see what you think.

Test Questions on visual "Realism"

[J_A_B]

Yet another gamer who equates difficulty with "realism".

The amount you can see even at high res in AH is so little that if your vision was that bad in reality you'd be legally blind--you wouldn't even be permitted to get a driver's license, much less fly a fighter plane.   Such badly restricted vision is in no way representative of most WW2 air combat (many pilots actually had better than 20/20 vision), and would exist solely to make the game more difficult.  


When ICON complaints are tied to perk-plane complaints, I tend to suspect the person requesting change really just wants cherrypicking to be made easier.  


BTW--color and markings were practically useless in air combat for ID purposes because color greys out over distance--at 3 miles a P-47 and a Me-109 would both look like about the same color, but you could still easily tell them apart.

J_A_B

[ebgb]

After digesting all this information, I believe Toad may be right.  Still, in a perfect world, and when we can have a display system a quantum leap better . . . nix those plane type icons.

And I quote:  When ICON complaints are tied to perk-plane complaints, I tend to suspect the person requesting change really just wants cherrypicking to be made easier.

I can cherry pick with the best of em, but don't misunderstand me.  I simply want to make it so a perk plane doesn't attract every enemy con within a 6 kilometer radius.  It's just not natural when threat assessment goes out the window in the presence of a perk plane.  I've seen fights, say 10 on 10, and when that perk plane shows up - 8 of those fighters already engaged head straight for the perk plane.  Perhaps the perk system is partly to blame, and perhaps the plane type icon system is.  I just want to do SoMeThinG with all these perk points.


g

[lazs2]

you might also notice that in WWII, plane identification was a little simpler... you may only run into one or two types of ac your whole tour of duty..  several more if you count fluffs.  We can run into 50 or so.
lazs

[ramzey]

ebgb, if u wish turn off your icons and fly without, or lower size whatever u wont.

but stay away from current icon system, its the best now.
nothing to change

ramzey

[Revvin]

Aces High does'nt have the ability to show planes in enough detail at distance to make no icons feasible. On top of that you have so many players with so many different computer specs you don't have a level playing field as those who can run higher resolutions will have an advantage. In WWII you would have a rough idea of what aircraft you faced and yet in Aces High you have Allied and Axis planes on the same side which just increases the difficulty beyond real life. If you want to see how unpopular a no icon arena is take a look at the WB Historical Arena which for years ran no icon setups and wondered why arena numbers were so low, making things unneccessarily difficult does not equal realism.

[SELECTOR]

maybe plane type can be 1k away... all icon should be 3-4 k not 6

[Pooh21]

If you ever played Strike Fighters, it has no icons on full realism settings. And the system I run it on is more powerful then the one I play AH on . I got graphics cranked up full and I cant tell Mig-19 apart from an F-104 until Im almost up his  arse.  I run AH at 800x600 so planes past  d300 are a colored blob. Plus no icons theyd need to do something about killshooter. Is that a good nik or a bad nik? No matter in that, situation niki needs to die

[nopoop]

Originally posted by Revvin
If you want to see how unpopular a no icon arena is take a look at the WB Historical Arena which for years ran no icon setups and wondered why arena numbers were so low, making things unneccessarily difficult does not equal realism.

There you go Revvin exaggerating again..

There was AT LEAST 4 people in there every night..

...and they were all squinting..

Squinting makes my head hurt. I learned that no matter how hard I'd squint, it was still just a dot..

..a little black period.. that moved.

Felt like I was THERE !!!

In a land with black periods that move around in the sky...

[Revvin]

Thankyou for pointing out my error...4 whole players? WOW I bet there was hardly room to move! I bet it was a great night with all four players flying around patting themselves on the back on how realistic and therefore how 'hardcore' they were

[ebgb]

i'm not advocating turning the icons off entirely, just turning off the plane type portion of it.

[Hooligan]

I like the fact that perk planes have Icons that announce their presence.  If you fly an aircraft that is noticeably better than those your opponents are equipped with I feel you deserve the extra attention.

Hooligan

[ccvi]

Originally posted by ebgb
i'm not advocating turning the icons off entirely, just turning off the plane type portion of it.

The thing with icons isn't that they're identifiable too easy in the game, thing is acquireing vis on planes is too easy as well as judging ranges.

To design the perfect ( ) icon type for a simulation let's start from a non-icon environment and then add icon information for what is needed:

a) detecting aircraft isn't really easy in reality. It isn't either in an icon less environment. Colorful icons make it a lot easier (e.g. a single second is enough to scan the whole sky up to 6000 yards out). Therefor icons color needs be something that blends in with the background. A medium gray, blueish if above the horizon, greenish if below, will do fine. Size as small as possible.

b) identifying in an icon less environment is too difficult, so add a short tag of letters, maybe with increasing information when the plane gets closer. Color see above. Change the distance it is displayed at depending on the attitude the plane is flying and position of the sun. IRL opposing parties usually use different aircraft, so add country information as soon as type identification is available.

c) seeing the attitude of the aircraft is way too difficult in an icon less environment because of both limited resolution and the 2d nature of the screen. IRL it's even possible from further out than identification. Add thin lines through the main axis of the aircraft at long distances where significant parts of the planes can't be drawn. Color and size see above.

d) Judging distances isn't too easy. Binocular vision allows judging them up to a maximum of 100 yards (even less), so below that a resolution of 1 yards seems plausible. Further out resolution has to quickly decrease. Identifying increasing or decreasing distance is easier than judging absolute distances, so add a small +/o/- to indicate that. Color and size see above.

AH fails in 3 of those 4...