Tour 22 perk plane usage: a simple chart

[AKDejaVu]

Its simple... I focused on the idea that the Me262 perk price and F4u-1C price were somewhat accurate.  Its my belief that the perk cost should line up with the k/d in this situation.

AKDejaVu

[AKDejaVu]

Err.. apologies... forgot to mention that these are records against fighters.

AKDejaVu

[Toad]

Pretty interesting concept Deja.

The announced purpose of the perk system was as a "way for HTC to introduce some interesting but otherwise unbalancing planes on a limited basis."

This sort of supports your idea that K/D would be an important factor in determing perk price.

Of course, the perk system is lately being touted as a way to limit the use of aircraft that some unknown percentage of players thinks are simply used too much in the arena. Or even to limit aircraft that are in the faster third or half of the free planeset.

In other words, they feel like they see too many Zoomanboomer 359A's and so they want them perked. Or the Hotrodder 971Z is just too able to dictate its fights through speed so it needs perking.

Now take an unperked plane that has a very high K/D average over the last three tours. Price is at the "0" point on the graph and K/D average is say... 2.0.

Should this plane be perked at 2 points? At what point would a plane be free?  K/D less than 1.0?

This system would sure change the arena!

Nice chart, interesting theory.

[BlauK]

Very good observations.

I agree that K/D is maybe the main factor for considering Perk costs, but maybe it should be weighed with % of total kills???

Some very unpopular planes flown by a small but dedicated minority may have a high K/D and such plane should not be perked IMO.

[Zigrat]

i remember a tour when drex was playing heavily when the p47 d25 had the best non perk k/d.... so you wouldnt perk that, would you?

[GunnerCAF]

I like the idea of adjusting perk points based on statistics.  But isn't perk cost going to influance K/D?  The higher perk cost will influance the amount of risk the player takes. Higher Perk costs, force a better K/D.

As an example, if the F4U-1C cost 200 perks,there is much more incentive to land it making the K/D higher.

Gunner <CAF>

[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: GunnerCAF ]

[-ammo-]

If you use K/D ratio as an indicator of which AC could be a perk, then the K/D ratio would only increase becasue it is perked. The P-51D has 14,497 kills, and a K/D ratio of .95.  The only real fact you can gather from that data is it gets used alot. It certainly doesn't indicate its abilities against the rest of the planeset. A good comparison would be the F4UC and the F4UD-1. The C model has 3526 kills and a K/D ratio of 2.2, while the F4UD has double the kills with 7057 and a pitiful K/D of .78.  All this is telling me is that the D gets alot more usage and by sim pilots with alot less skill.  

So the perk system is successful in limiting usage of whatever AC has a price on it.  But it  really isnt an indicater of how good the AC is.  The pliots themselves  have the largest effect on its K/D ratio, not how good the AC is. Even that little 8 point price is limiting usage, this surprised me. I remember the saga of the F4UC,  I never thought that the perk price would have had that much effect.

[Toad]

Well, if "perking" is truly intended to limit "unbalancing" planes maybe K/D is useful.

After all, the planes that have a high K/D either have high capability or are flown by pilots with high capability (the Drex P-47 example). So perk them to limit them and level the playing field, right?

So, if one is looking for the perfectly balanced arena, maybe K/D works as a part of the equation...

Except of course that pilots of Drex's ability always have enough perks to fly any darn plane they want to, don't they?  

There is NEVER going to be a truly "level playing field" with a large WW2 planeset and players of diverse ability.

Ammo, in another thread you talk about perking the P-51. Why? From your stats, it looks like a player has a better chance of killing one than being killed BY one (.95 K/D). So, no point in perking it because it's such an awesome killer, right?

Instead, it seems to be that they're being USED too much... in other words, lots of players like to fly them. A poor reason for perking, IMO. The concept of perking a plane your customers like to fly a lot when that plane can't maintain an overall K/D of 1 seems like it would drive people away from the game.

[straffo]

It bring an old idea : perk the pilot not the plane...

When john Doe is flying is Tempest he is likely to be shot down by an uber pilot because he is trying to ourturn a Zeke for exemple ...

[AKDejaVu]

The one thing that doesn't seem to happen is cost affecting use... at least not much.

3 of the 5 perk planes have very similar usage (against fighters) with about 300 kills... the Me262 with about 500 kills and the F4u-1C with alot.

So the cheapest is the most used.. ok... that makes sense.  But the most expensive is the next most used.  Why?  Because it is more survivable.  I don't think it matters how much the plane costs, people will fly it the same... to survive.  The only perk plane that seems to be somewhat immune to this is the CHOG.

Really.. the only thing I like about this chart is that the resulting perk costs would seem about right to me.  The F4u-4 and Ta-152 are not the monsters that the 262 and Tempest are.  The cost should be dictated accordingly.

So...

Me262: 200
Tempest: 120
F4u-4: 30
Ta-152: 20
CHog: 8

The point is to keep the more unbalancing planes used sparingly.  The less unbalancing the plane... the less of a concern that should be.

AKDejaVu

[ra]

K/D should have nothing to do with perk cost.  The % of total kills each plane gets should determine perk costs in the next tour.  Most planes would end up unperked, and after a few tours we would have a balanced perk system.

ra

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Toad:
Well, if "perking" is truly intended to limit "unbalancing" planes maybe K/D is useful.

After all, the planes that have a high K/D either have high capability or are flown by pilots with high capability (the Drex P-47 example). So perk them to limit them and level the playing field, right?

So, if one is looking for the perfectly balanced arena, maybe K/D works as a part of the equation...

Except of course that pilots of Drex's ability always have enough perks to fly any darn plane they want to, don't they?  

There is NEVER going to be a truly "level playing field" with a large WW2 planeset and players of diverse ability.

Ammo, in another thread you talk about perking the P-51. Why? From your stats, it looks like a player has a better chance of killing one than being killed BY one (.95 K/D). So, no point in perking it because it's such an awesome killer, right?

Instead, it seems to be that they're being USED too much... in other words, lots of players like to fly them. A poor reason for perking, IMO. The concept of perking a plane your customers like to fly a lot when that plane can't maintain an overall K/D of 1 seems like it would drive people away from the game.

I can agree with the statement that it will never really be a balanced arena, and I dont think I would want that either.  The reason is,  the pilots have more of an effect on it than the capabilities of the AC. Although the capabilities of the AC also factor in the equation.  If you were to perk the pony, I think you would see its K/D ratio skyrocket. I would bet one of my miniscule paychecks on it  I see alot of pony's, they are very popular for whatever reason each P-51 lover has.  The plane is also very fast at all levels, is very manueverable, and has great visibility.  But the pony is not the subject of this thread. Just replying to your post and it's its also another subject in another thread.

As far as pilots go, what are you gonna do? You cant give them a penalty because they are good. Sorry drex, fester, whoever, it will cost you 10 perk points to fly this sortie.  I enjoy meeting up with them in the arena's, win or lose, I love a good challenge.

[Toad]

We agree then that it is the pilot far more than the plane then.

The disturbing trend I see in all these threads is once again folks are becoming overly concerned with what the other guy flies.

I'm far from the best virtual pilot in this game. I do fly the P-51 for two reasons: 1) Sentimental. I have always loved Mustangs 2) because of the sentimentality I'm in a P-51 squad with an iron-fisted CO   .

I assure you, however, I could do just as well as I do now in any of several different planes. The C-205 comes to mind. One tour I decided to fly that exclusively. Got off to a real slow start as I learned it. At the end of the tour, I was amazed at what a killing machine it was in the MA when the pilot flew it to its strengths.

The P-51D, flown to its strengths, is a great aircraft. Flown incorrectly, it's meat on the table. That's why it has a K/D of .95.

More fly it incorrectly than correctly. The exact same thing can be said for most aircraft.

That's why I view all this perking stuff as pretty much baseless. The pilot is more important than the plane. The guys who can really analyse a situation (SA) and shoot well are going to kill disproportionately more than the rest of us humble dweebs no matter what they are flying.

Long ago I posted this tongue-in-cheek comment (that Sling put in his sig   ):

"Yah know, it just RUINS the game for me when other players fly planes I don't want them to fly. Those quakers.. those dweebs.. "

Let's all just play the game, OK? We can leave the heavy lifting on the planeset/perk system to the guys who designed it.  

My view? Check my sig block.

[-ammo-]

You make a very good point.  I really don't care about how my ride competes with the rest of the planeset (JAB believes this was my motive). I have learned as well as my squadmates onn how to succeed inthe MA with the jug. I love it for the the same reason you love the pony.   I guess I just would like to see some of the other rides more in the MA. I like to fly the Zeke, the Hurricane, the spit 5 as well as I do the P-47.  They dont stand a chance against the fast rides. the well flown hurrican will only win if the P-51 or LA7, etc.. makes a mistake. But that is the nature of the MA.  

All this is conjecture, HTC has their own ideas on how they manage the perk system.

[Toad]

Yeah, one day Ammo, I'm going to ask Rude to give me a tour-length TDY to the 56th if you'll have me. I love the Jug almost as much as the P-51. You guys have mastered the Jug and I'd like to learn to fly it better. Can't think of a better squad to come to, hat in hand, begging for Jug knowledge.

As for the other, slower rides in the MA, that's where I think Laz has a point in his "divided arena" scheme. I'd actually like to see that tested. I think it would provide an interesting variety of fun, all in the same overall arena.

Still, you can't call the Spits.. any of the models... rare in the MA.  

I think we basically agree under all this.

I'd like to see the early war and mid-war rides come on stronger too. I just don't know how you do it with the entire war's planeset in one arena. The perk system isn't the way, IMO. It's merely a different way to achieve a RPS-type outcome. "You cant fly Y plane until you achieve enough perk points using the X plane." It's a delaying tactic, mostly for new guys. The "old heads" already have more perks than they use. Hmm.. maybe wipe everyone's perks to zero at end of tour?   Bet that would be popular!

Bottom line, I'm having fun. I'd have as much fun in the C-205 (my next choice) as I do in the P-51 but Rude would put me on KP for six months.  

I'm leaving it up to HTC. They've been real successful so far. They'll find a way to work in the early war stuff.