Never Gonna Attack a Buff Agian.`

[Wanker]

LLBM, I luv ya man, but you're all wet on this whine. Buffs can be killed, it just takes patience. A good buff pilot/gunnner is indeed a formidable opponent, but in an arena without massive bomber formations and handy escorts, that's the way it should be.

[Suave1]

I think the reason why we don't see bomber formations and escorts like in those other online games is because the buffs in AH don't need them .

[Ice]

Heyas LL....

I fear buffs...having said that, if you want to kill one, remember three things...

1. No six approach

2. Stay hot

3. Be patient...again let me repeat...be patient.

Anything else, and it's a crapshoot. They are certainly harder to kill than they used to be...I suspect it's the change in gunnery that took place with the offering of 1.04.

Godspeed!

Ice

[fats]

duma,

I am sure you've read about sturmgruppes? They would have 16 planes come dead six approach flying almost wingtip to wingtip. In AH that would mean the death of the whole formation - I don't mean the buffs though.

The armor these planes had when compared to to the normal versions of these planes does nothing to protect from the type of damages you die from when attacking an AH bomber, which are wings and stabs flying off.

// fats

[popeye]

"3. Be patient...again let me repeat...be patient."

Heh.  

[Jay_76]

I must concur,

dead 6 approaches on buffs has been hazardour to my health: furthermore, the 20 cal pings I've gotten have either been rubber bullets, or useless hits.

But I have had some luck of late with buff hunting- had one great kill of a lanc from a slightly elevated 2 oclock run, pinging at distance (+0.5k) with a 20 cal and rolling to the left.  He disintegrated... but if you think about it, I was landing less shots into the engines and more into the wing roots and body.  Lanc's are the easiest, bar none, but take the most ammo.

Getting above and trying for different deflection shots is definitely the way to go... just takes time.

*S* and regards,

Jay.

[llbm_MOL]

Like I said I dont need tactics on how to approach line up and kill a buff. I've tried them all and all from WB's know who I am and how long I've been doing this. I think the Buffs hardness and armor are perfect. I DONT think the guns are right. Game play if BS in my mind as all the cards are loaded on the buffs side. If 8 50's all at conv hit you your frigging wing is coming off. Its not a maybe. 1 ping you MIGHT live. 2 Pings you dead. Pure roadkill. You dont stand a chance if they guy is good enough to hit the broadside of a barn. All he's got to do is spray and pray and your dead. So like I said buffs can come and go by me I'm staying away from them. Till the guns are fixed. If HT says he ain't fixing them, fine I wont ever hit a buff again.

LLB OUT!!!!!!!

[Wanker]

Works for me, LLBM. Guess that's one less person in the arena I have to worry about when I fly a buff. Not that it's going to stop the other 200 that frequently shoot my buff down on a regular basis.

The guys who are successful buff hunters have learned the correct approach angles, and it's both scary and interesting watching them setup the attack. It's definately an art form.

Suave, I disagree. If the buffs were made more vulnerable, I think that would lead to fewer people driving them, not more.

[Replicant]

Hi

I find that the Hispano or 30mm equipped planes can down a buff very easily (though Lancasters and Ju88s are tough birds).  I tried a P51 last night, first time in awhile and I downed a P38 and two B26s.  The last B26 did get me but only after I made a stupid mistake (he had a gunner on board!).  I fly a lot of buffs and quite often a good approach will easily take a wing or vertical stabiliser off.  When I'm in a B26 I actually like them to attack from the belly (rather than forward high or level) because you just bank hard 90-120 degrees and he falls right on your six.  He 'might' get a shot in and he'll only damage you a lot if he's in a cannon plane.  Having said that, as he's on your six you should be able to down him easy.  I hate seeing the F4U!!

I have more problems going too fast when trying to shoot buffs down.... can be too easy to mistime your approach but when you time it right it's lethal!

As Ice said, patience is the key to downing a buff.  

Regards

Nexx

[Vermillion]

LL you just now figuring this out??   Damn I learned that back before the beta ended.



------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Tac]

I have no problems with attacking and killing a buff. I usually get overly impatient and make a 6 attack and get killed, but most of the times I do high speed passes from a HO or high angle approachs and have no problem killing them.

I do see a problem WITH the buff guns on the b17,b26 and TBM. And i'd like it corrected.

When a bomber needs one or 2 pings of .50 to kill a fighter there IS a serious problem there. Gameplay my arse. As I said above, if because of gameplay I have to resort to trick the gunner into switching guns so he cant shoot me (something that is quite idiotic since in RL all guns had its own human gunner) or dive at neck breaking speeds and HOPE that the buff gunner aint paying attention to me or that his aim is really crappy so that I can kill the lone buff then I dont see why I consider it a ww2 simulation. You are clearly "gaming" the game.

There is NO way a fighter will survive a pass on a buff if the buff gunner is paying attention to you. That is a fact. All the times ive been shot down in a buff have been due to the fighter twisting above and below my buff, staying out of sight or distracting me while his wingman flames my butt. Every time a lone fighter attacks my lone buff from a high speed angle you can bet your nuts that if I see him at d2.0 and aim my guns on him at d1.4 and start spraying, that fighter IS DEAD at the second ping.

Game the game or simulate ww2 attacks on a bomber? What are you guys paying for?

A few nights ago a group of 6 lancasters attacked our hq at 18k. They flew in formation. Their .303's are not single ping killing turbo.50cal's, but they are DEADLY when they are in a formation.


I wouldnt mind seeing OTTO with the same AI firing as the field ack. Just give the otto unlimited ammo, and let the human gunner take over the gun he wants. When the human gunner fires THEN he wastes that gun's ammo. This would allow formations of buffs to have a field-like AA protection and human gunners.

Perhaps HTC could give it a try in the test arena? I think this might work.

[Lance]

 

I dont wanna hear about all you uber buff killers cuase I think your full of it.  Ive tried every suggestion made to kill a damn buff and some of them work ...about 20% of the time. Not good enough odds for me.  If you get one frigging ping from a buff gun thenyour getting hit by every 50 cal that can "see" your plane. Pure roadkill.

"Pure roadkill" about sums up all of these posts whining about buff lethality.  HBlair beat me to the idea, but here are some numbers from tour 11...

* Wardog has 8 kills and has been killed 1 time against the B-17G.
* Wardog has 10 kills and has been killed 2 times against the B-26B.
* Wardog has 2 kills and has been killed 0 times against the Ju 88.
* Wardog has 6 kills and has been killed 1 time against the Lancaster III.
26-4 vs Buffs.

* Hangtime has 10 kills and has been killed 5 times against the B-17G.
* Hangtime has 8 kills and has been killed 2 times against the B-26B.
* Hangtime has 4 kills and has been killed 2 times against the Ju 88.
* Hangtime has 7 kills and has been killed 2 times against the Lancaster III.
29-6 vs Buffs.

* Citabria has 11 kills and has been killed 0 times against the B-17G.
* Citabria has 25 kills and has been killed 4 times against the B-26B.
* Citabria has 12 kills and has been killed 1 time against the Ju 88.
* Citabria has 19 kills and has been killed 3 times against the Lancaster III.
67-8 vs Buffs.

And even me, the absolute crappiest AH pilot in the arena who is currently sporting a kill per death ratio of 0.4167...

* Gordo has 5 kills and has been killed 0 times against the B-17G (tour 11 & 12)
* Gordo has 10 kills and has been killed 4 times against the B-26B (tour 11 & 12)
* Gordo has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times against the Ju 88 (tour 11 & 12)
* Gordo has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times against the Lancaster III (tour 11 & 12)
17-4 vs buffs.

I guess not everyone is full of it if they say they don't have much of a problem with buffs.  I don't have any tricks to dealing with them, only effective tactics.  If you consistently get your bellybutton handed to you by buffs, it is your fault.  Rethinking your tactics and working at them will be a lot more fruitful than coming here and whining for a completely unnecessary change.  And who knows, you (the composite ever-whining you out there) might actually become as good as you think you are  

Gordo

[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 01-15-2001).]

[SwampRat]

Being fairly new, I haven't figured out yet whether it's worth the risk and time to kill a buff vs just not bothering with them in favor of a good old furball.  All the elitest types can point to there skill on the charts in numbers but it doesn't change LLB's point that is very much correct, Buff gun's are way too accurate.  I don't think the excuse that "there aren't enough escorts" is a good one either, I always make it a point to escort buffs...for cods sake there is no easier way to kill fighters than to hang around a few thousand feet over and behind a buff lol.

[popeye]

Seems like a fighter v. buff is a good fight, with no clear advantage for either.  I respect buffs when I'm in a fighter, and respect fighters when I'm in a buff.

Of course, if you don't have the time or patience to set up a good attack, by all means...leave the buffs alone.    

[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 01-15-2001).]

[Fury]

 

Originally posted by llbm_MOL:
........If 8 50's all at conv hit you your frigging wing is coming off.........

It sounds like the problem being described is not the guns by themselves, but the linked fire option, where all guns that can fire in the direction you are firing will go off.

I'm having a hard time figuring out if people in this thread are complaining about the turbolaser buff guns that shoot more accurately than the ones on fighters; lethality of the .50s; or the ability to link fire so multiple guns will fire at a target.

Personally, I have a difficult time taking down a buff.  Especially if I hurry (which I usually do).  Then again, I have a difficult time being a buff gunner, but I guess my aim just sucks either way  

Fury

<edit: yea, sucks is a good word, remind me to never look at stats again.

Tours 1-11:
vs. bombers   28k  29d
in bombers    29k  82d

my buff gunnery needs obvious help>

[This message has been edited by Fury (edited 01-15-2001).]