Never Gonna Attack a Buff Agian.`

[niklas]

one problem is that you can´t fly as a fighter against a single gunner station of a buff. I mean if you attack 12 o´clock, the bottom turret shoots through the cockpit of the B17 at you, maybe the top turret also. A gunner can shoot through the wing and through the vertical stabilzer, too. So you always have at least 6-8 guns pointed at you in a fighter.

And sometimes i have the feeling that the bullet radius is bigger for the buff-guns, but this is my personal opinion, never did a test. But when you get multiple hits at 1.5k than something is wrong imo

niklas

[Fury]

I didn't realize that your own guns could shoot through your own plane, that would certainly make a difference imho.

I did think that my buff guns could shoot through my buddy's buff (which I don't really like) instead of me killing my buddy or killing myself.

Fury

[Wanker]

Guys, this exact argument has raged in WB for years. At least with AH's system, a human must aim the guns. Sure, they are linked. But it was a "lesser of two evils" decision that Pyro and HT made. If they bring buffs defenses down to "historic' levels, then you will not see any more buff drivers in the arena. That you can bank on.

[Fishu]

I can tell that those B-17s are real fortresses in AH  
Only time when I was in real danger to go down with my Fw190A-8 during my 270 kill streak, was when I attacked B-17 and he took my wingtip off and I took his.
I almost did fly straight into guns of another B-17 lower ahead when I couldnt control my plane enough..

At least with fighters you can avoid that guns head on situation when you attack  

So, worst killer title goes for B-17 from that tour..

[loser111]

all valid point in MHO on both sides.  here is my take:

buff guns are hella destructive etc... but all this "i got killed at 1.4k" is dumb.  the only way you can do this is if you fly, all dumbed up, in a straight line at or // to the buff.  you do this,  you deserve to get yer wings plucked.

and all those guys who said use strategy and annoy the buff to death>  bing bing bing, you got it.. pick your kills like any other target and you wont die.  make a pass then get the hell outta dodge.  the whiny babies that say buff guns are way overmodelled are the guys who go all in on one pass, staring into the guns and hope they kill before they die themselves.

poopy pants mcgavin OUT!!!!

[Maverick]

I'd like to see the players talking about getting higher and diving on a buff do it on a 30+k buff. If you turn in a fighter you lose pretty significant alt. The buff (B17) can turn inside the fighter up there and not lose alt. Last buff I tried to get was over 32k and when I tried to get higher and ahead he simply turned into me as I was attempting to pass at a distance. The 17 was able to come nose on to me faster than I could turn the fighter.

The 50's on a buff are not the same as on the fighters. They are longer range and have higher lethality.

Mav

[SKurj]

If I am climbing up to reach a buff, its usually gonna be a bad run for me..  If I come across a lower buff   he's mine.  One short burst in dhog to outer engine of Lanc and down it goes.  B17 aim fer the outer wing section.  Damn b26... used to hit tail plane, not sure anymore...

Personally, I think for the most part buffs are pretty good.  The weakspots they currently have are the thin line that keep balance IMO.  Without them I'd be whining about em too.

AKskurj

[Karnak]

If a bomber is at 30,000+ feet, ignore him.  The amount of time it took him to fly that mission wasn't even close to worth it.  He could've caused much, MUCH more damage by doing a 20,000ft flight or by using jabo in a fighter.  He could do 2 20,000ft flights and probably 5 jabo flights in the time it took to do the 30,000ft flight.

He has voluntarily removed himself from the game.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Sisu
-Karnak

[ET]

The last I looked on tour 12 it had B17s with 2052 kills against being killed 2602 times.Thats a 4-5 ratio.What ratio should apply, 2 buff kills to 1 fighter kill ?
Most of the guys who posted had no problem killing me.The ones who say patience and high tactics are right.They get me doing a what I call a turret dance and lose their location.If you cut back on the buff guns any more than what they are,why bother buffing,who would fly in a death trap ?
Then there are us people who are new to interactive games like this and are new to flying any thing.We do not have your expertise.We envy you who have the talent and have the knowledge.To compete with you and stay in the game we need the help.As far as the guns go,some nights I can kill almost any thing thing that comes my way.Guns are lethal.Other nights it seems like I can't hit a barn door and get killed all night long.Guns suck.
In good faith
ET

[fats]

Popeye,

Try and setup a proper attack against a single bomber flying 35K+, while you are in a Fw 190.

Don't even have to be a Fw 190, almost any plane will do. If the buff pilot wants it can change headings so that you will have nothing else except low six approaches, and complete his bombing run once you are dead, out of fuel or out of ammo.


// fats

[popeye]

Fats, yep that's a problem.  But I don't think the solution is to neuter the buff guns.  Rather, I'd like to see bombing accuracy toned down to make a 35K run a waste of time.

Personally, I won't fly a buff above 25K, or chase one above 30K.

[hblair]

 

Originally posted by fats:
Popeye,

Try and setup a proper attack against a single bomber flying 35K+, while you are in a Fw 190.

Don't even have to be a Fw 190, almost any plane will do. If the buff pilot wants it can change headings so that you will have nothing else except low six approaches, and complete his bombing run once you are dead, out of fuel or out of ammo.

// fats

I've heard people complain about all these 35k buffs on the bulletin boards for a while. How many have you guys actually seen? Don't exagerate. I've seen all of maybe 4 or 5 since September of '99 (or whenever open beta started) Methinks a lot of the 15k-20k buffs get called 30k-35k after the attacking fighter gets killed.   I've been in a formation where some dork was calling us 30k+ when we were actually at 22k.

Just some food for thought.

[llbm_MOL]

Once again I don't care about your tactics. The guns on the Buffs should not be auto converged on the target. If they just point them all in the direction of the target not in auto-conv or have a way the buff pilot(JUST LIKE THE FIGHTER PILOT) has to set his guns convergence to a certain distance. Then it would make it even. The problem is that the guns auto converge at any distance the target is from them. Hence 1 ping is actually about 8 50's hitting you at perfect convergence. This is roadkill! Even the b29 guns didn't get perfect convergence. They should have more dispersion, period!

LLB OUT!!!!!!

[loser111]

 

Originally posted by hblair:
I've heard people complain about all these 35k buffs on the bulletin boards for a while. How many have you guys actually seen? Don't exagerate. I've seen all of maybe 4 or 5 since September of '99 (or whenever open beta started) Methinks a lot of the 15k-20k buffs get called 30k-35k after the attacking fighter gets killed.   I've been in a formation where some dork was calling us 30k+ when we were actually at 22k.

Just some food for thought.

EXACTLY!!! this is never a valid agrument, i have flown hundreds and hundreds (and also hundreds) of buff missions my alt was never even close to 30k let alone above it. i think i have seen one buff above 30k maybe two. both b26s,,nuff said

Gerome the Giraffe OUT!!!!!

[Graywolf]

 

Originally posted by llbm_MOL:
The problem is that the guns auto converge at any distance the target is from them. Hence 1 ping is actually about 8 50's hitting you at perfect convergence. This is roadkill! Even the b29 guns didn't get perfect convergence. They should have more dispersion, period!

Erm, that's not correct.

HINT: in oder to converge on a target you have to a) know that target is b) know the distance. While Aces High has code for b) it has no code to work out what the hell you're shooting ac, at least as far as I know  

You set convergence for bombers same as for any plane...

NB. The problem isn't too much accuracy ,but a nice shotgun type cone of fire making it easy to hit things. More dispersion wouldn't help, less might  



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Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>