breif destription of AH gameplay of late.....

[hazed-]

Sit in tower looking aimlessly at the same ol planes and think of trying or planning something different to raise the excitement/enjoyment stakes. Make a mission and struggle to get more than 5 or 6 people in it. Give up and grab a fighter.
Fly toward the battle gaining alt etc for a realistic type of attack, see enemy dive in and watch the m dive away toward a huge number of higher cons. 4 or 5 enemy dive on you forcing a break off. Either im then killed or i have to run for 10 minutes from a persistant LA7 who is intent on using HO or anything to kill you.
you either die or you get away only to have to reclimb to high alt for the same thing to happen later.

GET BORED

grab a bomber fly for 40 minutes to get to an even reasonable alt. attacked by a plane with 50 cals who manages in 1 pass to wipe out 2 buffs then 3 or 4 finish off the last one before your near the target.

GET frustrated

grab a late war plane that might just allow you a chance in the heavily outnumbered gang fights. Basically do this for months whilst longing for a more varied game.

there seems to be a very fast moving strat in AH now.No precise attacks with objectives, just massed swarms of conga lines from one base to another. You can either pile in and take your chances or sit in the tower and dream about doing something new.

Im not blaming anyone for this and im sure its also due to a little overuse of the game BUT I really feel theres a HUGE scope for making AH more fun. Simple experiments with the perk system or greater rewards for considered gameplay or mission activity could really change the attitude of players online. This all for yourself attitude is NOTHINg like the way the war was fought. They emphasised TEAMPLAY and sound tactics not gunho ramming and suicide attacks 24/7.
What i see of late is the people who are AVID aircraft and WW2 fans and are often well versed in ACM and well read on the history of the conflict being forced to fly in a way which CANNOT sustain adult interest for very long.AH seems to be changing into a fast paced checkers game where learning the intricasies of the world of wartime aviation is ignored in favour of becoming a fast shootem up player.I love it , furballing etc IS FUN. BUT it cannot sustain longterm interest.
Im beginning to think Laz is right about making an area where furballing is constant and removed from the main 'war'. A place where the quick fix arcade types can fly and fight whilst others more interested in flying in skies reminisant of the real war can get on with an enjoyable attrition/destroying infrastructure and resource war.Flying real formations with similar roles to the real planes.

This is by no means a whine and i dont blame anyone but i felt it had to be said that things are looking ever more bleak as far as im concerned. AH2 on the faceof the minute info i can find about it SOUNDS like a perfect solution where acting/flying in a manner far removed from how they used to in the war will result in a hard time and low score whereas following the behaviour of those old WW2 vets or emulating it closley opens up new avenues of gameplay(ie promotions and rewards). Of course im only ASSUMING this is what will be the aim of AH2 but i cant be sure as i have no clue even whether I have the right idea about it.

basically i felt as a long term customer Id like to know where we are heading and what customer suggestions the HTC crew like or dislike. Do they like laz's ideas? do they want to encourage or discourage the furball mentality? do they realise theres a need for both types of player, furballer and strat men and intend to try to cater for both? will they try to do this in one arena or seperate the groups>?

Can those of us who crave missions or set objectives with a realistic grouping of aircraft (ie b17s and escorts) expect to see more or less of this sort of thing in the future? Is there a possibility that the rather arcade like respawning in such short periods of time of targets and structures will be changed?

will we ever see a building that stays down longer than 30 mins? basically enough time to get home before you need to refly the whole thing.This is the sort of thing i really dislike at the moment in AH. The game is catering for the quick fix fighting so much its becomeing repetative and a little dull.

Cant we try having very much more dangerous to attack bases but with structures that once down STAY down for a REASONABLY realistic time frame? Maybe make SOME bases very well defended with ack BUT also the most pivotal strategic base(maybe the only one with troops?) with other simple grass fields closer together and easy to use (maybe never lose all fuel etc) to cater for those quick fix flights.
This way the big bases would REQUIRE bombers rather than as it is now where the bomber does nothing much more than get used as a big jabo plane and most favour a low level fighter with bombs to do the job bcause they know 10 la7s are going to kill them anyhow.

why not make certain areas difficult to destroy without the use of large amounts of ordinance? put a few bases in that jabo is usefull for and a few where jabo would take too many pilots to effect enough damage. Lets have a base or two where dropping bombs from alt is the only way to have a reasonable survival chance? These bases can be the ones near the HQ so they
dont have to be the focus of the war until the finall stages.

I guess im just asking for something to be added or changed to break the same old checkers type game up.Im just getting a tad bored with it and the general behaviour that seems to permeate theMA of late.

[sax]

[lazs2]

hazed.. we have different tastes but... neither of us likes the newbie steamroller... the strat in AH can be distilled to... the country with the highest numbers is the steamroller.

I dont want objects staying down longer tho because it would simply mean that more fields were simply useless for longer periods of time... that would have the effect of doubling and trippling the allready prohibitive (for furballers) distance between fields and fites.  

maybe the new "missun" area will draw away all those who like the "missun" and leave the MA as a quick fix action type of arena which, in my opinion, it was meant to be and what it does best.... when it strays from this and trys to be more is when it ends up pleasing no one... Take WB WWII arena for instance... that abortion has about killed their sim.
lazs

[gofaster]

Trinity needs more carriers.  Heck, they all need more carriers.  That would shorten the distances between airfields and allow more furballs over the open seas.

Vehicle bases need more vehicle hangars.  Vehicle hangars need to be toughened.  

We need more than 3 kinds of tanks.  Bring the Sherman Calliope to Aces High!  Then bring the Pershing as a perk ride!

These simple changes would make Aces High a much more different game.

Seems to me that the steamrolling jabo raids became vogue when the new bombing method was introduced, making it tougher to hit a target from a lumbering heavy.  I think pilots who were casual bomber guys stopped bombing and just hopped into a Typhoon, Mustang, or P-47 instead, and hence the steamrolling technique became prevalent.  Who would sign up for a heavy bomber mission nowadays?  Maybe one or two pilots.  The rest would "escort" in heavy fighters.

Frustrated?  Fly a Yak9U.

Bored?  Fly a 109G10 in Juggernaut configuration (30mm in the nose with a pair of 20mm in gondolas).

[Toad]

Just my .02, but as the game has drifted farther and farther from an emphasis on ACM, the things you mention as promoting "boredom" have become more and more prevalent.

For example, when did the "massive 50 plane steamroller" technique have its genesis and why? Seems to me, when the days of one relatively small squad sending a few fighters, a buff or two and a goon on a capture mission ended, that tactic was replaced with the "tidal wave attack".

And when did the small squad capture missions become relatively ineffective? When the bombing was made more "realistic", the map room was moved off to a separate location and the fields were "hardened" to prevent easy capture.

While I don't disagree with you, what I'm saying is all of those changes were asked for, nay begged for, and "we" got what we asked for, didn't we?

Kinda goes back to the old "be careful what you ask for, you might get it" saying.

Personally, IMO the "old days" had a much higher "fun" or "interest" quotient.

I think many of the changes clamored for generated a lot of "boredom factor".

But that's just one player's opinion. YMMV.

I do share some of your concerns, however, I think our suggested solutions would differ.  

[T0J0]

Well said hazed!!!
I thought I was the only one sitting in the tower bored from the same old la-7 fights..
 When every time you up you spend 10 minutes grabbing alt to the fight and 2 minutes running from 15 LA-7's...
 It has turned into a flying game-o-Quake IMO..
Hard to get excited about flying Quake anymore just like The real Quake got boring after about a week...
 0J0T

[eddiek]

..........about all I can stomach is one or two sorties at most.

After that, ya realize you are just seeing the same thing over and over and over and............well, you get the picture.

At one time, I couldn't wait to have some spare time to log in and fly.  
Nowadays, I gotta make myself log in.
But that's just me and how I am feeling about the game lately.  I tire of seeing the normal "teamwork" hordes (usually the side with the most players) hovering over bases.  Anymore, I just sit in the tower and laugh at them........I figure it must be frustrating for them to fly to a base and not get to vulch anyone, and if it disappoints them as much to not get the easy kills, my job is done.

Guess that is the main reason I applied for the CT Staff.  At least in there I can "try" to set up a terrain to influence folks away from the horde mentality.  Well, I hope I can..........

[Arfann]

My first inclination was to advise you to fly in the CT. It's keeping my interest at least moderately warmed while waiting for AHII. Problem is, some of the newbie types are hanging there now, too. For example, last night I got rammed. I received no damage, but rammer died. Message on channel 1: "Sorry, I was out of ammo". Took a quick look in the CT this morning where there were two others, one each side. Got a ch2 message: "Glad there's another on! I've been going crazy trying to keep him from sneaking the fields back I snuck earlier!"  

Oh well. Let's hope AHII brings the fire back.

[Yeager]

Funny how things go sometimes.

I find I still enjoy the game but there are definately things about it (the game) that make if a real challenge.  Sometimes Im amazed Im still playing.  Im sure HTC is too.

I suppose if I could make just one complaint it would be towards all those people that play AH because its a online game and not because its a working simulation of the golden age in air combat.

Just too many snot-nosed pre-pubescent kids and plain old jack*ssed punks.

to those few left not covered in the two broad generalizations above

[jEEZY]

well said hazed...although it seems to me that this game has never really tried to be a true sim (e.g. the rather simple aircraft management, bullet counters, distance icon displays, a spit shooting down a B-17[?]) .  That being said, perhaps the game has been left to the arcade type who long for quick action and quake style shoot-em-ups.  I know, go to the CT or play snapshots...to be honest I have found the CT to have a similar--albeit less--arcade mentallity.  As for snapshots, I have enjoyed them, however I play at strage (all) times, thus the timing is usualy not something that works for me.  

I for one would rather have historical engagements--or that style--than mass fighters practicing their hand eye co-ordination, but its not my game alone and who am I to dictate how the game should be?  

Perhaps the mission arena will be a 24hr place to have snapshot style play with more challenging aircraft management and more realistic tactics--until then I guess I am relegated to finding an increasingly rare ACM fight or interesting mission.

More vehicles or aircraft will not address the problems hazed has discussed.  Case in point, for months the AH community screamed and nashed teeth about not having a stuka dive bomber--the threads were many.  Now that there is a stuka, how many get flown? Not alot. In fact try to get a mission up with stukas--granted it happened, but once the novelty of the aircraft wore off the foundational problems reappeared,  and few to no stukas come off the ground any more.  And when a brave soul does attempt to up a stuka it is immediatly swarmed my a mass of late war aircraft, killed and another person thinking: "Boy that's the last time I try that plane again."  

The cry for more vehicles or aircraft has become the "Kartago delenda est!" of AH; No matter the subject the answer is more planes, tanks or ships.  I say the answer is more attention to actual game play and less attention on novelty game play.

All I ask for at this point is a mission statement from the people over there in TX.  Where do they see the game going, and how do they want to get there?

jEEZY

[acetnt]

Any suggestion that varies the strategic value of the fields (targets) --- Has my vote

[Naso]

Hazed.

I have to confess that I still grab sometime a bomber to bomb some factory, but the time I head back home, and the factory is up again.

The fighter duty, and/or jabo, is impossible out of the Horde, since there's no way you can avoid a mutual gangbang.

No more enjoyable few vs. few fights.

I personally will suggest 2 things:

1) put the strat targets downtime (with the exception of HQ) at no less than 1-2 hours (unless repaired by players), to give the bomb-boys some sense of accomplishment.

2) (hear hear!! ) Perk 60-70% of the planes, if you want a ufoish La7 or Niki... EARN it!!! And fly it with the fear to lose back those points.

I know... It's fantasy... My fantasy... worth 0.0002 € (well, in reality, it's worth 14.95$, but this does'nt make a lot of difference ).

[Saurdaukar]

Good post.  Im not much of a buffer, so I cant relate there... but as a pretty much dedicated fighter junky, I have come to the conclusion that for the past 5-6 months, there are three possibilites when you take off:

1.)  Get vulched because you didnt see the red bar in the sector.

2.)  Fly 20 minutes to your desination at 15-20K feet, only to have 8-9 La7/Nik/Spit's drop down on you from 30K.

3.)  Fly 20 minutes to desination, find no one.  Fly 20 minutes home.

I really miss the small, 2v2, 4v4 engagements that were common only a year ago.  Now it seems if you see one con, there are always at least 10 around him.  The face shooting and ramming whines used to be great for a laugh... but does anyone use ACM anymore?  It seems to me that 99% of the fights Im engaged in proceed as follows:  

Visual sighting, 100% throttle, head to head merge, I drop underneath con's nose to avoid tracer fire, proceed to counter his first move... a flat turn... ok, simple right?  Sure - high yo-yo... Nope... 5 more La7's coming... you need to break off cause you dont want to be caught on the upswing of the turn... but of course you cant disengage and break off because you cant outrun them.  So you turn... nope... cant do that either, becuase there's an N1k back there too and he'll eat you.  So what are you left with?  No options.  You franticly enter the world of dweebdom... "There is no way I can survive this engagement intact, so I will take as many of them with me as I can."  

Its just no fun anymore, and complain and whine all you want, we have no one to blame but ourselves.  We asked for bigger maps, we got Pizza.  We asked for even countries, we got the perk modifier.  We laugh at HO whines, chute shooting whines and vulching for the passed year or so, and suddenly its become common behavior.  I dunno what HTC has up their sleeves for AHII, but I certainly hope the new game brings back some of the old "rules" of online flight simming from 5-6 years ago.

[Saintaw]

AH hasn't changed that much, I think it's more what the players did with it than the makers. you could have 10 * 5 vs 5 fights (FUN) but instead, it's an endless stream at one base, which ends up in a huge warpfest (NOT FUN).

PS: Sardaukar is spot on as far as I'm concerned.

[Don]

>>there seems to be a very fast moving strat in AH now.No precise attacks with objectives, just massed swarms of conga lines from one base to another. You can either pile in and take your chances or sit in the tower and dream about doing something new<<

Hazed:
You just described a regular experience of most; particularly those who are flying for a country which happens to be getting ganged by the other 2 countries.
While you hesitate to blame others, I have no such reservations. I blame the overwhelming mass of players in all countries who do this; it is what has become accepted in the game.
I was up for 3 hops last night; my first was as a gunner on a ship. The last 2 were in fiters at A87, on one of the hops I was in a P47 and dove down to see if I could pick off a defender. Hehe, after I made my pass, a fellow countryman radios me and says: "Strider, you got 5 or 6 on yer tail". LOL! It was as if I stuck my foot in a flea infested seat cushion, and pulled it out full of bugs! This goes on every night, it isn't smart yet, every countries' pilits do it.
For me, at times the fights get boring if the same thing goes on each night, but othertimes there can be some really good fights occur; it is those times that make memorable ocassions for me.
Most times, if I'm getting bored I don't fly for a few weeks. For over 7 years now, that has seemed to do the trick for me.