speaking of gun control

[hawk220]

from the NY times



(NY Times) - President Bush and the National Rifle Association, long regarded as staunch allies, find themselves unlikely adversaries over one of the most significant pieces of gun-control legislation in the last decade, a ban on semiautomatic assault weapons. At issue is a measure to be introduced by Senate Democrats on Thursday to continue the ban. Groundbreaking 1994 legislation outlawing the sale and possession of such firearms will expire next year unless Congress extends it, and many gun-rights groups have made it their top priority to fight it.

Even some advocates of gun control say the prohibition has been largely ineffective because of its loopholes.

Despite those concerns, the White House says Mr. Bush supports the extension of the current law a position that has put him in opposition to the N.R.A. and left many gun owners angry and dumbfounded.

"This is a president who has been so good on the Second Amendment that it's just unbelievable to gun owners that he would really sign the ban," said Grover G. Norquist, a leading conservative and an N.R.A. board member who opposes the weapons ban. "I don't think it's sunk in for a lot of people yet."

[Syzygyone]

Not trying to start a war or anything but I'd really like to understand the rationale behind the NRA's opposition to banning assault weapons.  Can someone explain why semi automatic assault weapons, which were not around when the 2nd amendment was written,  are somehow covered by an amendment which simply says you have a right to bear arms.  

I mean, Geez, I like firearms.  I shoot them whenever I can.  I've taught my children about them.  I'v ehad my wife fire them.  I've  fired semi-auto's.  But, why go to the extreme and demand that ANY firearm is protected.  None of our other rights is so openly interpreted.  For example, we all have the right to free speech but you are not protected if you yell FIRE! in a crowded theater.  What's the difference between limiting the 1st amendment rights and limiting the 2nd amendment rights?

Just curious here?

[john9001]

what is a 'semiautomatic assault weapon'?

what is 'gun control'?

what is 'loophole'?

can you yell "fire" if the theater is on fire?

[ra]

Can someone explain why semi automatic assault weapons, which were not around when the 2nd amendment was written, are somehow covered by an amendment which simply says you have a right to bear arms.

First of all, the term 'assault weapon' is made up.  These are just semi-automatic rifles with a military look to them.  Secondly, these weapons are perfectly suited for home defense and civil defense.  Thirdly, they are used in a tiny minority of gun crimes, so what exactly is the purpose of banning them?  If congress wants to add more restrictions to a constitutional right they should at least present a justification.

ra

[lazs2]

why would anyone want to ban semi auto or even full auto firearms?   Is there some huge problem being caused by semi or full auto firearms that I am not aware of?

lazs

[Arfann]

Just a bunch of weenie politicians trying to make it look like they're "doing something" about crime. Normally, I expect this from the Dems but am amazed to see the war mongering bush join in. Shows he'll do anything he thinks will help get him re-elected.

[Gman]

Oh, I don't think this would help him get re-elected.

Considering what the gun culture/NRA did for his father due to the fact that they felt betrayed back in 91/92 (not voting, or not voting for Rep), this could be disasterous for the Reps in 04.

[Scootter]

This is a perception thing, as the ban is only about looks not about the weapons ability. The ban states that a weapon may only have two of the following items, if it has three it is banned from being sold as a NEW weapon. All weapons made before the law went into effect are grandfathered in and are ok to own.

1. Bayonet lug
2. Prominent pistol grip  (like AR-15 in my avatar)
3. Removable magazine
4. Flash suppressor

Any two items are ok but not three, if you look at the new AR,s you will find no flash suppresser or bayonet lug (makes them so much safer don't ya know)

It is the most absurd law and does nothing to lower crime.

The Bushmaster used by the DC sniper was completely legal as it has no flash suppresser or bayonet lug  (really slowed him down I'm sure).

This is what congress does with our tax dollars pass crap that helps them keep their jobs by people who don't know any better.


Mini-14 or Mini-30 is fine as it has no prompt pistol grip or bayonet lug (you may even add a flash suppresser) and it will kill you just as well as a AKM or AR-15

Pretty Stupid Don't ya think?!!?

[ra]

Mini-14 or Mini-30 is fine as it has no prompt pistol grip or bayonet lug (you may even add a flash suppresser) and it will kill you just as well as a AKM or AR-15

You can buy a .30-06 hunting rifle for much less, and it will do even more damage than any of these quasi-military guns.  Don't let the regulators find out.

ra

[Syzygyone]

If a weapon has three of those four elemetns, it is an "assault weapon" or is that a media term?

With   Grandfather to allow in all such weapons already inexistence prior to 1995 seems to make the law totally toothless.
Surely gunsmiths can refurbish and rebuild old weapons.  So, in actuality it is a law without any real effect, right, excpet as to "newly" manufactured weapons?

[Yeager]

Oh hell yeah.  The year before Klinton and his commie buddies passed the ban, I bought an Oly Arms Car-15 for $350.  A very sweet weapon.  After that idiot and his morons passed the ban I sold it for $1800 and turned right around and bought a Oly Arms PCR-5 for $400 (PCR-5 was a CAR-15 minus the collapsable buttstock, bayonet lug and had a few more inches on the barrel to be legal after the ban, I kept my dozen 30rnd clips and plugged em right into the PCR-5 as the clips were grandfathered in).  That damned PCR-5 is a superior weapon to the CAR-15 in most applications anyway.

Idiots and morons supported that ban and deserve nothing but hatefull indignation in return.  the 92 AWB was the most blatent piece of anti american self masturbatory legislation ever created and was the sole most important reason I developed a hatred for all things liberal and socialist.

Do not renew that ban and if you do, who gives a sh*t.

Keep your powder dry and your barrel clear!

[Scootter]

Gman,

I am an active shooter and gunsmith, and everyone I know in the hobby of firearms is a Rep. the mere mention of most Libs. is not even allowed. This is a very conservative group and ALL vote and will vote for Bush. This may disappoint, us but we understand the politics involved and know W needs to not piss off all the left as the conservative Libs may vote on our side this election as well.Just my $.02

member

AOPA
NRA
IPMA
PADI
NGSA
NAHB
FHBA

[Scootter]

Originally posted by Syzygyone
If a weapon has three of those four elemetns, it is an "assault weapon" or is that a media term?

With   Grandfather to allow in all such weapons already inexistence prior to 1995 seems to make the law totally toothless.
Surely gunsmiths can refurbish and rebuild old weapons.  So, in actuality it is a law without any real effect, right, excpet as to "newly" manufactured weapons?

Not really,

wish this were true but the receiver (with ID number) is the weapon according to the BATF. If you bought 10 old receivers and then built a working weapon with them, the day you put them together is the date of manufacture. If you use a Post Ban receiver and change it to include three or more banned items this is also a no no.  I have been asked to build a bunch of weapons this way and have refused. What are your chances of getting caught?, well sense it is a federal offence and in this new post 911 world you probably do a year at club fed and loose you rights to own any firearms, you do the math.



And Yeager, just one thing

I love ya man!!

you is so right

[Syzygyone]

So what do you use these "assault weapons" for, anyway?

[Scootter]

I use it to put .22cal holes very very close togeather on a target at around 100 or 200 yards.

and every now and again get a plaque or a trophy or something


What do u use a golf club for?
 
Same thing just different strokes