Author Topic: For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)  (Read 12850 times)

Offline Kweassa

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2003, 04:50:22 AM »
Tumor, read six posts up from your last post.

 The two lengthy posts are entirely about the Spit9. Considerations and still more considerations, and yet, still the Spit9 fills none of the major categories I've considered for the perk candidates. That's why it's always a dilemma :o

 And no, Karnak, it isn't based purely on date - technically, the reason it has a rounded out exterior of about 1943, is because all the planes after 1944 in AH breach either one, two, or all of the major aspects requiring perk in my opinion - performance, rarity and multi-role aspect.

 Usually those aspects are interlinked - in the case of most of the late war planes, they came out after 1944, which means:

1) they are most usually very high performance
2) some of them are rare
3) they developed multi-role aspects

 So, very naturally, the planes before that era lack most of those three aspects - relative high performance planes exist, but none of them are like the La-7.

 The problem is, the Spit9 fits into none of the three reasons given which effect people's choice on planes, and yet, it holds 10%. The sole reason for its success is balance of maneuverability and speed like no other plane except the N1K2 - their maneuverability is excellent, and they are very fast, compared to the handful of planes that turn even better then they.

 Frankly, that translates into "easy plane to fly and fight in", "easy mode" if you will - regardless of actual effectivity or impact.

 Most Spits and N1K2s form the 'grunts' of the MA forces, fighting the highly risky and dirty battles where survivability is hardly expected. They usually are ignored by fast planes, and usually fight the same types used by other countries on deck. Simply put, its a plane loved by dweebs. No need for understanding in real ACM, no need for careful E management, just fly, point, fire, then get shot down.

 ...

 But the problem is, perking a 1942 plane for the reason it is a good balanced plane, which is not a super plane like the La-7, doesn't make sense. It sees heavy use by all kinds of people, and for one thing, the dedicated RAF fans will never ever understand that. The N1K2 is a quad-cannon plane with 900 rounds, a relatively rare plane, and also a 1945 model. At least the N1K2 got reasonable grounds to limit it.

 And that's what I was trying to figure out 6 posts above - what will happen when the Spit9 is alone, among the big four, left unperked.

 Since all of the suggested perks aren't really penalizing, maybe there can be a compromise to perk the Spit9 even lower than most planes, maybe 2 points - just to make average pilots who have to really concentrate to earn 3~4 perks in an hour, so that they think twice about the 'dweebing'. But as I said above, it's a path I'd like to stay away from...

Offline Magoo

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2003, 12:33:36 PM »
Quote
The two lengthy posts are entirely about the Spit9. Considerations and still more considerations, and yet, still the Spit9 fills none of the major categories I've considered for the perk candidates. That's why it's always a dilemma  


Kweassa,

I think your "Perk List" is well thought out and well intentioned and I certainly hope HTC can find a way to implement some form of it. If it doesn't work out, they can always revert back to the current system.

Let me make a suggestion for curing the Spit9 problem as it applies to your perk list. I have suggested before that all planes should be perked except the models that were in service at the beginning of the war. You could alternately say all models that were in service when the BOB commenced but then we're choosing an arbitrary date that's open for alot of criticism.

New players could be issued some perk points upon signing up, just to make sure potential customers are not lost because they cant fly their favorite plane right off the bat. Taken a little further, some Perk points could be issued to everyone at the start of a new camp, just to satisfy those who dont budget or fly well.

So lets have some constructive criticism on this idea to see if it's feasible...

Magoo
A bandit on your six is better than no bandit at all!

Offline Magoo

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2003, 12:52:07 PM »
I'd like to add that although supporting this perk list may make me appear to be the AH version of a Democrat/Republican politician ("I know what's best for you and will make all attempts to shove it down your throat"), I am actually a Libertarian...so eventually you just have to let the peeps fly what they want ;)

Magoo
A bandit on your six is better than no bandit at all!

Offline Sable

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2003, 07:07:29 PM »
I think adding a 1 or 2 point perk to the Spit IX would probably do the trick.  Just enough to convince some people to take a ride in the Yak-9T, Ki-61, C.205, 109G2, Spit V etc.   And all the Spit-lovers who aren't just looking for the best free plane can probably maintain enough perks to fly the Spit 9 for a very high percentage of their sorties.

Offline B17Skull12

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #64 on: August 24, 2003, 02:35:59 AM »
very good i like it since i never use any of those planes. he did tons of research and i hope htc listens. GJ
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Offline TheCage

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2003, 05:41:27 PM »
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PERK EVERYTHING


I got a better idea JustJim, why not just dump all the so called good planes and keep just the B-17, Zero, P-40, and F4F.    Then no one will have to fly against a super plane and have to complain about it.   Then again there wouldn't be anyone around to fly them.   To those 50 or so all I can say is get a life.   People play this game to have fun, but if it takes away your fun then find another flight sim to fly.   WWII Online or even War Birds needs pilots.   Start perking all those planes and you'll find Wild Bill happier then a dog in heat.   The influx back to his game will really make him happy.   So yeah please perk almost everything in this game.   Oh and while your at it don't forget the GV's.  Now just flame away.

Offline Kweassa

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2003, 09:14:31 PM »
Ever read the consequences of unchecked "fun" and "freedom"?

 It's in the book called, "Lord of the Flies"

Offline TheCage

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #67 on: August 27, 2003, 11:56:57 PM »
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Ever read the consequences of unchecked "fun" and "freedom"?


Yes I have but in the same context have you ever read what happens when a few dictate to the many how they should live and think?    

Try reading George Orwell's 1984!

People come here to have fun not have a few dictate how they should fly or what they should fly.   Plus the vast majority know
the difference in a fantasy role and a real life career.   Do I like having to fight the super planes?   Not especially, but I have learned to deal with them.   Do I get upset when the Super Planes shoot me down?  

Sometimes, but I won't tell those people what to fly or even bad talk them over the open channel.   It's their fun and who am I to even try ruin it for them.   If they like to TnB great, if they like to BnZ fine.   Just don't force people to fly what you want them to fly, that is not what the main arena is about.   That is what we have TODs and the CT for.    Everyone that pays their monthly fees has a right to choose what they will fly.  

Just because your a very accomplished pilot, doesn't mean the vast majority is.   Some of those same people work extremely hard to get what little perk points they do have.   If you want to play Big Brother, please do it some where else.   Leave people to have their fun!

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IT'S THE MAN NOT THE MACHINE!

Offline Kweassa

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2003, 10:46:55 PM »
:rolleyes:

 And pure unadulterated freedom to everything is automatically ensure everything is fair and square?

 It is interesting a mere suggestion on a few perks, you automatically equate it to "forcing a certain ride". Having fun is so easy when nothing comes with a price tag. And that unadulterated fun, can sometimes have a vast, social effect as a whole. There is a strict need to see things apart from a very individual basis you ask.

 It's the same principle why laws are made. Who are those bananas making laws for us to abide by anyway?

 It would be the way you describe it had I the power to change everything on my whim, but unfortnately, I do not. That's why this discussion has taken place - to lead a consensus.

 If a mere discussion to lead a consensus to advise, or recommend, or request to the developers what a certain portion of community thinks would be appropriate, is such a shackling experience in your eyes, then we might as well do away with the process of debate and communication as a whole - since every argument on something is essentially, according to your logic, a 'dictation' to others by a few.

Offline TheCage

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #69 on: September 02, 2003, 06:34:03 PM »
*And pure unadulterated freedom to everything is automatically ensure everything is fair *and square?

Nobody said it was going to be fair and square.   Even if you perk all the later rides it will do nothing to make things fair and square.   As I said you are a accomplished pilot, but the majority are not.   I like you have gathered many perk points but I rarely ever use them.  As I said earlier there are many that struggle to get what little perk points they do have so you would be penalizing new players and the not so good pilots.   Thus forcing them to fly a ride they would not normally fly.

* It is interesting a mere suggestion on a few perks, you automatically equate it to "forcing *a certain ride".

As I just said many will be forced to fly rides that they wouldn’t normally fly.   That is my point.   Only the people that get a constant flow of perk points will be able to fly what they prefer, but many will not.  

*Having fun is so easy when nothing comes with a price tag. And that unadulterated fun, *can sometimes have a vast, social effect as a whole. There is a strict need to see things *apart from a very individual basis you ask.

In a way you are correct, but the price tag comes with the monthly fee.    Why should a majority have to pay extra for the right to fly what they want?  There are better ways to solve this problem other then perking planes.    None of those ideas however were excepted by HTC.  

*It's the same principle why laws are made. Who are those bananas making laws for us to *abide by anyway?

I understand what your saying but unless people speak out those bananas as you put it, they get away with making those laws.   Those same bananas are a minority who make laws on a whim for the majority.

*It would be the way you describe it had I the power to change everything on my whim, *but unfortnately, I do not. That's why this discussion has taken place - to lead a *consensus.

Ok understand this Kweassa, I have in part known you for quite a while, and have much respect for you.   I certainly have admiration for your flying abilities, but this is one time I just disagree with your thinking.   It’s not a slam or a flame on your part.   I just simply disagree with your idea, and have stated so.

*If a mere discussion to lead a consensus to advise, or recommend, or request to the *developers what a certain portion of community thinks would be appropriate, is such a *shackling experience in your eyes, then we might as well do away with the process of *debate and communication as a whole - since every argument on something is *essentially, according to your logic, a 'dictation' to others by a few.

By your own logic that this is a discussion then opposing views should do nothing to do away with a debate.   A debate is one that has pro and cons or both sides of the coin.   I am only expressing my view point as a paying customer.   As far as I could see everyone that replied to this thread except one agreed with you.   So myself and JustJim are a minority in this discussion.   I don’t normally get involved with these discussions, but this one time was an exception.   I have seen too many times where one sided discussions ended up being implemented into this game only to give the advantage to a few.   Perking just about every plane is just one thing I am totally against.   Personally though I seriously don’t think HTC will even consider this idea.    So there is it, no hard feelings Kweassa, so I will end my end of the discussion.   My views have been stated, my feelings have been expressed.   It’s in HTC’s corner to see which opinion they agree with.

Offline bozon

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #70 on: September 03, 2003, 01:04:58 AM »
TheCage,
in this perk agenda, most perked fighters have an earlier model that is not perked. so if you are 190,109,p-51,p-47, la5/7, spit, f4u, fan you'll always have free variants to fly.
The perked models are so lightly perked that it would be easy to get the needed perks - we are talking about 1-3 perks only! this can be achived just by droping a few bombs on a city in attack score, no kills needed.

The TnB players will find this setup more comfortable since most TnB fighters are early-mid war and they'll have less speed-demons-BnZ planes buzzzing around. less, but they'll be there still.

and perhaps if there are many perked planes out there, it will stop the "hey! there's a perked plane there, lets all go kill it!" mentality.

Bozon
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Offline GooseAW

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2003, 09:53:32 AM »
Very well thought out!

HERE! HERE!

Offline Nilsen

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2003, 03:55:40 PM »
Yup, good point Bozon

Offline muckmaw

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #73 on: October 07, 2003, 10:29:28 AM »
Always liked Kweassa's perk idea.

Would it be such a nightmare to try it for one week and see if it works?

Offline Mister Fork

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #74 on: October 07, 2003, 08:14:37 PM »
Kweassa, I've been using Perk Points just like yours in the CT for exactly the same reasons you have proposed on the 10 other aircraft in a variety of scenarios.

Guess what... they work.

It's not about earning your ride, or making sure that dweebs are not using the same planes over and over, it's to historically limit planes that otherwise can dominate an arena.   Perk points work. Period.



« Last Edit: October 07, 2003, 08:16:58 PM by Mister Fork »
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