Author Topic: 3 point or wheel landing  (Read 611 times)

Offline Terror

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3 point or wheel landing
« on: November 25, 2001, 09:54:00 AM »
After teading a recent post about someone not being able to loose enough speed to be able to do a landing flare without gaining altitude, a question came to mind "3 Point" or "Wheel" Landing?  

Since most of these fighters are taildraggers and are close to the rear CG stability limit, the planes should have a higher landing speed and be landed "flat".  Trying to do a full stall, 3 point landing in most of these planes will just lead to a quick ground loop and damage to the plane.

So my recommendation, Use full flaps, use a powered approach (no idleing!), keep the speed up, do a nice flat easy landing flare, and use all the runway ya need.

Any opinions???

Terror

Offline K West

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2001, 10:17:00 AM »
I always throttle waaaay back on the final approach, cross the controls (ailerons one way, rudder opposite) to bleed E till I get to about 190-200mph.  I'll also lower prop RPM's to about minimum and when I'm less than 200mph I dro pthe gear, that drag helps alot. No problems landing in AH at all. Sometimes I use flaps if I get too slow. However if it's a fast put down that I need (vulchers hovering or on thier way) a couple of low speed barrel rolls, no throttle and one final flare with full flaps works pretty good too  :)

 Practice with a Zeke. Then once it's under the belt and second nature transition to planes with a higher landing speed.

 Westy

Offline Seeker

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2001, 10:32:00 AM »
I always land in a flared, nose up attitude, even on tricycle wheeled planes and buffs.

The *only* time I land "flat" is on CV's (which is probably wrong, but it works).

I find the biggest problem isn't E management, but "bounce management", as I've a bad habit of using flaps as speed brakes (which they're not), so I probably come in a bit hot and then get extra lift on full flaps from ground effect.

Also, a lot of planes will nose stand on the brakes which I think is a bit naff. If a Mustang on full throttle won't pull the nose over against the brakes, then how come full brakes at 20 MPH lifts the tail?

Offline Chaos68

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2001, 11:42:00 AM »
I always use full flaps. if im comming in too hot i circle around to bleed off E. My bigest problem is when i land i bounce, and i try to corect it and i go into a wobble and then my plane flips. Eather i blow up or just bust the wings off the damn bird.

another good landing is the ever great belly landing.   :D

Offline FlyingDuckSittingSwan

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2001, 12:40:00 PM »
Well, historically they were supposed to land on all 3 wheels. You can check this in certain books or web sites. Even though I could only land fast and on two wheels was all I could manage. Belly landings, no prob...3 point landings...no luck.

Offline Dago

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2001, 12:42:00 PM »
You can land these things???

Heck, I should try that sometime, I always die fighting.   :D

dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline ra

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2001, 12:42:00 PM »
Three pointers are easy.  The only time I do wheel landings is when I have flap or elevator damage.  The only plane I ever ground loop is the Hog, and I think there is a bug with it because it seems to just happen randomly.

If you want challenging landings download the demo of Il-2.  I still can't survive a P-39 landing consistently there.

ra

Offline eskimo2

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2001, 12:54:00 PM »
I usually chop power to idle or even shut the engine off.
Full flaps with all planes, gear down ASAP,  (anything under 400 mph in the Hog).
If I am in a hurry, I usually lang gear-up.
Even the hog has good ground handling on belly landings.

eskimo

Offline FlyingDuckSittingSwan

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2001, 12:54:00 PM »
errr...I just thought of this. Wasn't one of the reasons for recommending doing a 3 point landing because most of the landing fields were just grass strips and bumpy, so if you hit a molehill or a ditch, the prop would get damaged. But with the nose up, the plane would just bounce.

Offline LePaul

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2001, 01:25:00 PM »
Slipping will help you get the plane down faster (rudder one way, ailerons the other) but be careful not to induce a cross-over stall.

The only planes I nose-high in is the Arado, Me262 and F4.  The jets use a lot of runway otherwise and the F4 just loves to ground loop so I bring it in on the stall horn.  The rest, just slam in there on all 3.

Offline funkedup

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2001, 03:35:00 PM »
3 pointers are no problem.  Just pay attention to the stall horn.

During WWII landing on 2 wheels was pretty common.  There are a lot of films, photos, and pilot anectdotes describing such landings.

Offline FlyingDuckSittingSwan

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2001, 03:44:00 PM »
er...yeah I'll have to agree with Funkedup. I've seen a lot of footage from those rebuilt WW2 fighters like the Spitfires ot Hurri's at airshows and they nearly all tend to do a two wheel landing. I don't know if it's through lack of skill, the tarmac instead of a grass strip or something else. But I'm pretty sure WW2 pilots were trained to land on all wheels.

Offline Tac

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2001, 03:50:00 PM »
You can land ANY plane by going to 1k AGL , slowing down to 200 mph , lining up., lowering elevator almost fully down, full flaps down and cut engine, do a glider landing.

Offline Voss

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2001, 03:56:00 PM »
I don't know if Westy realizes it or not, and BD5 certainly should, but what these two are describing is known as the 'forward slip.' It is a manuever designed to steepen tha angle of descent. If you're looking at the runway and realize you are too high, just cross-control by dropping a wing, and pushing opposite rudder. There is almost no penalty for using full rudder, so the more the merrier (sure helps get the speed down with the jets). The forward slip is actually a nose low manuever, but you can scrub more speed by holding your nose level, or slightly high. Just be careful, as BD5 pointed out, as this can lead to accelerated problems.

The reason you have full flaps is so you can use them in landing. You shouldn't be able to use full flaps for takeoff, as the drag is excessive, but you can get away with it (your procedure becomes more critical, though).

If, you want to do a three point landing, find out what speed your plane stalls at, first. I recommend offline, or the TA for this. Then, in order to find a safe threshold/approach speed, just add thirty percent to the stall speed. As you come across the threshold pick your nose up a tad bit, and watch your speed. With some practice you can get to the point where the stall point and three-point contact coincide. Be careful though, as stalling anywhere below fifteen-hundred feet and above one foot, is very bad!

Also, it is very important that you remember that throttle is altitude, and pitch is airspeed! On approach you don't want to get these two mixed up!

These and other suggestions are available (with film) at the upcoming "unofficial Strategy Guide for Aces High." Web site to be announced.

[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Voss ]

Offline chunder'

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3 point or wheel landing
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2001, 06:00:00 PM »
Just a note... what I have found works best for the F4U when landing at a field is to try and keep the tail up as long as possible and stay off the brakes until the tail drops.