E.U. Satellite System Plan Threatened

[AKIron]

Originally posted by GScholz
Only? GLONASS was launced in 1982. It's available to the public free of cost, just like GPS.

There ya have it. So why claim US domination.

BTW - see my post before yours.

[Syzygyone]

Originally posted by GScholz
Only? GLONASS was launced in 1982. It's available to the public free of cost, just like GPS.

I don't know.  Maybe it's just me but that picture of GLONASS sure looks a very lot like the Russian Space Based Nuclear Missle Platform posing as a communication satellite in Space Cowboys!

[Syzygyone]

Originally posted by GScholz
Europe just want to be more militarily independent now. That includes an independent GPS system.

Then they should spend some money on a military before they spend money on a system so that "military" can find it's way out of a dark closet!

Ahhh hahahahahahahahaha

[NUKE]

Originally posted by GScholz
Europe just want to be more militarily independent now. That includes an independent GPS system.

Damn good idea and I'm all for Europe being militarily independent..... then we wouldn't have to spend so much on it's defence

[Naso]

Originally posted by NUKE
Naso, who ever said the GPS system was built for "good will"? It's a miltary system and the US decided to let civilians use it after the companies that built the system complained about it.

Almost what I said, nor I was implying someone stated the contrary.

Now how does the US giving increased accuracy matter to the EU system? If the EU system is economically viable and offers a better system, then it will succed, if not it will fail.

It matters, because will attract a part of the customers to stay in the GPS system and not invest/buy the new one.

Are you saying the the US shouldn't increase the availible accuracy just so the EU system will have a better chance?

Not at all!!
Just suggesting that the choise can be a direct move to try to delay/disrupts the efforts of the EU.

As I already stated in many posts (maybe I need to put it in the signature ), generally, there's no moral judgement in my opinions or in my posts.
Wrong or good is for the humans, the states and huge companies dont have a morale or ethics (scary, uh? ).

It seems the EU bickering has done more to stop the system than the US GPS system.

Eh, as usual.

The EU disputes regarding profits is one small example of why I said before that the EU is a powder keg waiting to explode in europe  one day. Think of what will happen when the EU has a real dispute between it's members.

Only future can tell us.

Anyway, listen this one:

Finally, after the confirmation that the Eurofighter would've been delayed some other year, Italian AF decided to acquire a better interim fighter than the Tornado ADV (!) to help the surviving F104 Starfighters (!!) we have as our first line fighters (ROFL).

We were considering the Mig-29 dismissed by Russia and East Germany, mounting a brand new West avionics, or the Mirage 2000 offered by Dassault with help of France government.

France made an incredible low cost offer for the Mirage, while the Mig29 could have been a low cost choise too.

Then the US entered the game, with the objective to avoid 2 things:

Keeping alive Russian Hi-tech aerodynamic industry.

Almost the same with France's one.

The offer is for re-activated F16 (national guard version), an amaizing machine indeed, at an incredible low cost, with the condition to leave the manteinance in the hands of US personnel.
(In this way you have no leak of know-how )

Winner!!!

How do you read it?

[NUKE]

Then the US entered the game, with the objective to avoid 2 things:

Keeping alive Russian Hi-tech aerodynamic industry.

Almost the same with France's one.

The offer is for re-activated F16 (national guard version), an amaizing machine indeed, at an incredible low cost, with the condition to leave the manteinance in the hands of US personnel.
(In this way you have no leak of know-how  )

Winner!!!

How do you read it?

Naso the way I read it that Italy didn't want to spend the money required to build it's own plane, so they bought one. Nobody forced them to buy the f-16.

[Syzygyone]

Originally posted by Naso

Anyway, listen this one:

Finally, after the confirmation that the Eurofighter would've been delayed some other year, Italian AF decided to acquire a better interim fighter than the Tornado ADV (!) to help the surviving F104 Starfighters (!!) we have as our first line fighters (ROFL).

We were considering the Mig-29 dismissed by Russia and East Germany, mounting a brand new West avionics, or the Mirage 2000 offered by Dassault with help of France government.

France made an incredible low cost offer for the Mirage, while the Mig29 could have been a low cost choise too.

Then the US entered the game, with the objective to avoid 2 things:

Keeping alive Russian Hi-tech aerodynamic industry.

Almost the same with France's one.

The offer is for re-activated F16 (national guard version), an amaizing machine indeed, at an incredible low cost, with the condition to leave the manteinance in the hands of US personnel.
(In this way you have no leak of know-how )

Winner!!!

Uh.... oh...... lets see now,  a choice between combat proven fully operational F-16's at a cheap cost or cast off Migs and Mirages.  Hmmmm, now which would I choose?

I think Naso, maybe them Eyetalians is smarter than you give em credit fer!

[Syzygyone]

Originally posted by GScholz
Oh they are. Plans are being drawn for a European military force including, among other things, four carriers (two of which will be operated by Germany, and two by France). [/QUOTE

Well, the EU-world will really be safe now, eh?

This is NOT a parody or a spoof---this is TRUE. This French aircraft carrier broke its port propeller on its first long-distance trials. The French Navy announced that a blade on one of the aircraft carrier's two propellers broke off when the 40,000-ton vessel was making its way from Guadeloupe in the French West Indies to the US naval base at Norfolk, Virginia at 25kts. The break occurred in the vessel's port propeller, which weighs 19 tons and measures 5.8m in diameter. Divers were unable to recover the missing blade.

The breakdown, which is the latest in a long line of complications that have beset the Charles de Gaulle since it began sea trials in February 1999, is expected to greatly increase the overall cost of Charles de Gaulle, Europe's only nuclear-powered carrier. The bill currently stands at around Ffr20 billion ($2.7 billion), including Ffr500 million for modifications and repairs to resolve problems that occurred during earlier trials this year.

Among the modifications was a 4.5m extension of the carrier's angled flight deck because the initial design was found to be too short to accommodate the Northrop Grumman E-2C Hawkeye early warning aircraft deployed aboard Charles de Gaulle in certain combat situations.  That's right-- they built the deck too short to take-off and land the planes! Vive La France

And I am sure Germany will fare much better as they have such a grand Naval history and all!

[Fishu]

The "forcing" nowadays means giving something for free, under the price or pure cash.

Forcing in itself has became an oldish thing...

Ie. Afganistan & Iraq - the bribes
Also could use Poland and Spain as an example - the reason why the goverment supported Iraq war more than the people (waste majority of people in spain were against, but goverment on the other hand...)

Polish is westernizing its military forces and rather coincidentally they're going to buy US military equiptment for rather cheap, after siding with US in Iraq war.

[Syzygyone]

Originally posted by GScholz
Well Syzygyone, shedding a propellerblade is a rather common thing on new ships. There's a lot of adjustments and modifications nessesary on modern warships aswell, or perhaps you believe all US warships have worked as advertised during sea trials?

Btw. the German operated carriers will be made with the help of the French. And yes they do actually have a pretty good naval history (nothing like the British of course).

First, I didn't compare anything to US warships, now did I?

Second, you missed the point of the article I think.  I don't know any horror stories of air craft carriers being buiilt too short for use by the very aircraft which, at the time of construction, were intended to be deployed on that ship.  But, if you do, please enlighten the rest of us.

Third, as for Germany's navy, well, IIRC the German Navy was pretty much flat out wiped out early in WWII, by them plucky Brits as I recall.  And yes, Germany had a pretty mean sub force, but that didn't last especially long either, especially against military targets, as opposed to freighters and passenger liners.

[Fishu]

Syzygyone,

You forget that the german 1935-1945 kriegsmarine was pretty small from the very begining and ship engineering wasnt as good due to restrictions after the first world war.
So not a big surprise if the german navy was wiped out early in the war, considering there was no navy to wipeout :>

ops..  forgot the begining year in a hurry

[Dowding]

Is it just me or is Syzygyone going out of his way to be offensive about anything European in this thread?

First, I didn't compare anything to US warships, now did I?

And you accuse me of trolling. What exactly is your point? You know what a sea trial is? It's a shakedown of systems to expose weaknesses. I'm sure the prop issue was fixed. Same goes for the flight deck. It's how engineering works - not everything goes to plan and you make modifications to meet specification.

That article is overtly anti-French. Which is apt, given the overtly anti-European, ultra-sensitive nature of your posts.

Third, as for Germany's navy, well, IIRC the German Navy was pretty much flat out wiped out early in WWII, by them plucky Brits as I recall. And yes, Germany had a pretty mean sub force, but that didn't last especially long either, especially against military targets, as opposed to freighters and passenger liners.

Those plucky Brits who you were just insulting a minute ago with comments like "Then they should spend some money on a military before they spend money on a system so that "military" can find it's way out of a dark closet! " You witty, witty bar steward.

Back to your latest inanity - let's examine your lack of historical knowledge. Every heard of Jutland? Go look it up. The Royal Navy had a monumental battle with the German Navy in WW1 and only just won with heavy losses. And the submarines? They are designedp to take out freighters. What 'military targets' are you talking about? They almost strangled the UK early in the war. Get yourself an education about submarine warfare. Please. You really are making an ignorant fool of yourself.

[Syzygyone]

Get up on the wrong side of the bed did ya?  A little hypersensitive today are ya?

I'd respectfully suggest, Sir Dowdie boy,  that you read the whole thread before you spout!

I wasn't bashing the Brits, you dolt! (although bashing you probably doesn't count as bashing Brits!:D )   The post I was responding to didn't mention England, did it?  It was about the idiotic concept of France and Germany becoming military or naval powers again.

GSsholz's post insinuated that I meant no US warships had ever lost a prop on sea trials.  I never suggested that US warships were better or worse at all.  That wasn't the point, anyway.  It was about the gawddammed length of the gawdammed ship.  You gotta admit, don't ya, that it's pretty funny to build a ship too short!  You gotta admit that such an event causes one to question the wisdom of those that built it, don't ya?

Oh, and about the subs, of course the wolf packs weren't meant to fight military targets, just defensless civilian targets.   Dowd, you are getting ever better at stating the obvious but missing the point of what you post.  Your point proves the moden day laughability of WWII german naval thought of building military machines that can't protect themselves against other military machines and how ill suited such a mind set will be to become a Euopean naval power.

Take a chill pill Mr. Dowd!  Quit trying to defend the French and Germans.  It's just redikulus!


Say, are you doin' the Squad Ops tonight?

[Syzygyone]

Originally posted by GScholz

Royal Navy WARSHIP losses to the KM during WWII:



Seriously, never seen a list like that and not that I doubt anything in your post, but could we see that source please?  Is it internet accessible?

Is there one for all of allied shipping and vice versa.  Interesting!

[Syzygyone]

Originally posted by GScholz

You really are an ................

And your point is?  

I'm not really but I play one on this BBS.  You fish are so very easy to bait!  But, it's hell waiting for AH2 to come out.