Licenses without photos

[Fatty]

I have no idea how you can so easily and completely dismiss the idea of a muslim woman being capable or desiring of independent thought or behavior.

I thought I was closed minded.

[threedays]

since when muslim women can not be independent ?

they cant be as independent as they cant have realtionship before marriedge ..... but who want this or that, will find way to get it

i noted that they do mind, that young boys are a bit brain washed by western influence
i didnt note that they mind separated metro


edit .: you pitty them more that they want you to pitty them ...

[osage]

Originally posted by threedays
since when muslim women can not be independent ?

I rest my case.  Fool.

[Vulcan]

Osage you fool! Don't you see? Muslim women are free to be stoned! When was the last time a western women could get a good stoning? Nobody has respect enough to stone western women, so how can they be free?

Iranian women stoned to death for obscenity, murder
TEHRAN

A 35-year-old Iranian woman has been buried up to her armpits and stoned to death by court officials for acting in obscene films, Entekhab newspaper said on May 21. The woman was arrested on charges of producing and acting in obscene films. She denied the charges, but evidence and testimony from witnesses led the judge to issue the maximum sentence allowed under sharia, the paper said.

Iran's Supreme Court last week approved another stoning sentence for a 38-year-old Iranian woman for killing her husband.

An accomplice, a 24-year-old man, will be hanged for the killing of the woman's 42-year-old husband, who was stabbed to death and buried alongside a cow's skull in a fruit garden outside Karaj, a town close to the capital Tehran, the Hambastegi daily said.

Men who are stoned to death are first buried waist-deep in the ground. If they manage to escape, they can go free. Women are buried deeper to stop stones hitting their breasts.

[Vulcan]

Oh and read this:
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhviran.htm

"Girl children suffer the worst conditions in Iran today. According to the clerical regime’s rules and regulations, a girl child can virtually be bought and sold with the consent of her male guardian. Article 1041 of the Civil Code provides that ‘Marriage before puberty (nine full lunar years for girls) is prohibited. Marriage contracted before reaching puberty with the permission of the guardian is valid provided that the interests of the ward are duly observed."

It has become common practice to sell or force very young girls to marry much older husbands, giving rise to all sorts of social ills. Adineh magazine wrote in summer 1991: "An 11-year-old girl was married off to a 27-year-old man. The father, who had seven daughters, received $300 for his consent. The morning after the marriage ceremonies, the girl was taken to hospital suffering from severe lacerations to her genitals."

Yup, they're free, playing in the parks, enjoying life....

can you say Paedophile nation?

[GRUNHERZ]

Fanatical Islam mistreats women in no way, its simply redikulus!

[OIO]

I tutored a 17 year old girl from pakistan in college a few years ago. She had just come out of ESOL (English as Second Language) classes and was starting college, and she had been in the US only for 2 years, yet her english was surprisingly good.

Anyway, it was obvious that her english level was really high, she only had problems with jargon, mannerisms and such. She was in the same spot I was in when I arrived to the US. Anyone telling me "hey what's up" would make me look up and that sort of thing.

During those 6 months she told me a lot about her past, especially how amazing it was to be in a place like the US where she could be her own person, not a commodity. Her father had agreed to marry her off when she was 18 to another family.. when she was only 10. And through twists of fate her father managed to bring the whole family to the US.

Never in my entire life have i ever met anyone with such energy and willpower. Think forrest gump but with einstein IQ. She learned almost perfect english in just 2 years, and her grades were excellent on the freshman year. I lost contact with her when I took a year off college to work, but at the end of last year I met her again.. she was working at SEARS, in the dept. next to my sister's office. I was picking my sis up from work and she came out. Still smiling. Sis tells me she is furiously protective of her rights and freedoms.. when she turned 18 she confronted her father and literally told him she was NOT marrying.

Just amazing.

[Syzygyone]

Fla. Judge: Veil Not Allowed in ID Photo
Associated Press
June 7, 2003

ORLANDO, June 6 -- A Florida judge ruled today that a Muslim woman
cannot wear a veil in her driver's license photo, agreeing with state
authorities that the practice could help terrorists conceal their
identities.

After hearing three days of testimony last week, Circuit Court Judge
Janet C. Thorpe ruled that Sultaana Freeman's right to free exercise of
religion would not be infringed by having to show her face on her
license.

Thorpe said the state "has a compelling interest in protecting the
public from criminal activities and security threats," and that photo
identification "is essential to promote that interest."

Freeman, 35, had obtained a license in 2001 that showed her veiled with
only her eyes visible through a slit. But after the Sept. 11 attacks,
the state demanded that she return to have her photo retaken with her
face uncovered. She refused, and the state revoked her license.

Freeman sued the state of Florida, saying it would violate her Islamic
beliefs to show her face publicly.

Her case was taken up by the American Civil Liberties Union, which saw
the case as a test of religious freedom. Conservative commentators
ridiculed the case, saying it would be absurd to allow people to obscure
their faces in ID photos.

Assistant Attorney General Jason Vail had argued that Islamic law has
exceptions that allow women to expose their faces if it serves a public
good, and that arrangements could be made to have Freeman photographed
with only women present to allay her concerns about modesty.

Howard Marks, Freeman's attorney, said the ruling would be
appealed.--------

[udet]

I have the perfect solution:

they should take a picture of her breasts, put it on the license, and make her show them whenever IDed.

[mietla]

Good call. Stop this nonsense.

[Saurdaukar]

Didnt read it all, read enough.  Ill inject some new, untainted blood into this issue.  (Im not calling it an arguement because, so far as I can tell, there is only one side that isnt totally ridiculous.

If she wants to drive in the great state of Florida, she takes her veil off for her ID picture.  

Its really that simple.

I dont think many LEO's would be too happy with pulling over veiled traffic offenders whom they cant identify at first glance.

What is happening to this country?  Have the lot of you really gone so far off the deep end that youve completely forsaken reason in your attempts to make the world a "better" place?

When it comes to local/state/federal policy lately, it seems that every step forward in one direction results in 3 steps backward in another direction.

[john9001]

i didn't know muslim women were allowed to drive cars, isn't that a sin?

[dracken1]

don't know anything about this case in the usa.

but a few years ago in the uk when it became law that all motorcyclists had to wear a helmet.

turban wearing indians were exempt.
there was uproar and eventually the indians had to wear a helmet also.
and bloody right too

[Pongo]

she should get it tattood on her yap if she wants to look that way.

[blue1]

This woman is American who converted to Islam. There is none so zealous as a convert. So she gave up numerous rights so hard won by the women of America and now asserts her right as a woman to further restrict her rights.

Is she mad or what??

As someone pointed out in most Islamic states women who drive must have their photo taken unveiled. In fact if she was such a devout Muslim, it would be her husband who did the talking for her. She would sit silently in the background forbidden to talk to anyone.

In reality, despite the opposite impression the media often gives, most Muslim women throughout the world only wear scarves and leave their face uncovered. Only in the most extreme areas are they covered up at all times. All the muslim women that live round here leave their face uncovered and they are all very devout.