Author Topic: Suicide Field Porker Solution? (Read 1170 times)

muckmaw · « **Reply #15 on:** June 03, 2003, 04:55:58 PM »

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Originally posted by najdorf
Muck, I agree with what you're saying, but until the difficulty of hitting anything in the heavy bombers is reduced, your going to see primarily suicide jabo's. No one wants to take the time to up a group of slow moving heavies, get them to the appropriate alt and then have it all for naught because of the difficulty calibrating.

Most will give it a try a few times and then say screw it and up a P-47 with rochets and bombs.

Naj-

I am not trying to belittle you or your skill, so please take what I say at face value.

It's not that hard. There are many tips and tricks one can employ to make the calibration very easy. Sure, above the wind layer is tougher, but I swear to you, I can hit a fighter hangar from 30,000 feet, 8 out of 10 times. At 15,000 feet, any member of my squad can hit a turning CV 8 outta 10.

You need patience. You need to plan your route, and know your target layout. It's more thinking than doing. The key is patience. If you don't have it, or lack the time, fly a fighter or a Jabo.

If you'd like some help, I'll be happy to share whatever I know with you. All you need to do is ask.....and be a knight.

muckmaw · « **Reply #16 on:** June 03, 2003, 05:00:43 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
muck... maybe if we had a bunch of quad fifty mounts that were all mannable... high alt fluffs would be unaffected but guys would get good at the quads and actually look forward to a raid of suicide tiffies, 38's or 51d's.

Make it suicide for planes to get too low around intact fields. I sorta agree with leviathn that it would allow guys to hide in the ack but... so what? we don't have to go in after em. Fluffs dropping bombs from high alt would take out a lot of random targets... some of em would be the mannable aa.. You would allmost need fluffs to "soften up" a field.
lazs

I agree, except for the use of the word "Fluff"

Using heavies to pepper a target field is fine. That's why I said, more Ack. Low alt raids should have a lower success rate than they do now.

Though we are very different in gameplay, I think we both crave a challenge. We just have different ideas on what a challenge is.

Tumor · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2003, 05:05:57 PM »

I'm in the middle of the Strat-Furballer argument because both are tons of fun.

The question should be asked (sorry if I missed it) but WHO is doing all the suicide JABO runs? And.. is it always suicide runs or just some JABO guy getting whacked by ack on the way through.

I really have no idea, but a real minority of AH players attend this BB. Do the suicide dorks even KNOW what they are doing and the prevailing attitude towards it (is it a prevailing attitude?), do they care? Would they leave if HTC implemented fixes? And the real important question, Does HTC care?

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #18 on:** June 03, 2003, 05:50:22 PM »

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Originally posted by captg
I am a big strat player...nothing better than flying over a field with my squaddie and taking out all the fighter hangers in one pass...downside...they are repaired before we land. Makes it pretty useless. We stopped bombing fhs long ago...we only hit fuel, ammo, and barracks now. That takes longer to repair and seems to make a difference.

CaptG
"Goodfellow Boys"

Which is why supplies should have more of an effect on cutting down the repair time than it does now. I'm not talking about the drone supplies that come in by road convoy, train or barges but player flown supplies. Increase the amount of time the supplies take off the repair time if players fly in the supplies. No more 45 minute wait until barracks or fuel/ammo respawns that way.

Ack-Ack

OIO · « **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2003, 06:31:05 PM »

more ack is not a solution, the suicide planes will keep coming.

Just look at the fleets. Their MASSIVE ack umbrella and people still go divin' on em.

Boozer · « **Reply #20 on:** June 03, 2003, 07:31:48 PM »

Agreed, making the field targets harder/more defended will only result in 30 suicide dweebs instead of the current 15. It will make the problem that much worse. We've already seen it when stuff was hardened the first time and caused this issue.

There's only 1 answer, remove the incentive, no perks for reset. That stops desire for field rushes and field capture becomes secondary.

Q: "But Booz!" you say, "what will we do? whats our purpose?"

A: learn to fly.

muckmaw · « **Reply #21 on:** June 03, 2003, 08:11:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boozer
Agreed, making the field targets harder/more defended will only result in 30 suicide dweebs instead of the current 15. It will make the problem that much worse. We've already seen it when stuff was hardened the first time and caused this issue.

There's only 1 answer, remove the incentive, no perks for reset. That stops desire for field rushes and field capture becomes secondary.

Q: "But Booz!" you say, "what will we do? whats our purpose?"

A: learn to fly.

I respectfully disagree, Boozer.

I fly for strat and base capture, and could care less about the perks. I don't think I've ever gotten the 25 measly perks for a reset, and yet I still strive for the reset, as that is my goal in AH.

taking the perks away would not pahse me in the least.

Pei · « **Reply #22 on:** June 03, 2003, 09:33:49 PM »

Why just not make it so that crashing into ground objects and vehicles does damage only to the aircraft (and any ordnance does not detonate). Problem solved.

sling322 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 03, 2003, 10:17:43 PM »

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Originally posted by najdorf
Muck, I agree with what you're saying, but until the difficulty of hitting anything in the heavy bombers is reduced, your going to see primarily suicide jabo's. No one wants to take the time to up a group of slow moving heavies, get them to the appropriate alt and then have it all for naught because of the difficulty calibrating.

Most will give it a try a few times and then say screw it and up a P-47 with rochets and bombs.

Appropriate alt?!?! What is that? I have spent a good part of my time the last 2 days defending bases against wave after wave of buff formations coming in at 500 feet. Is this appropriate alt?

It doesnt matter what you say or do to try to solve the problem, folks are going to twist it around and find some gamey dweebish tactic to beat the system.

Dont get me wrong....killing buffs over and over at under 1000 feet is good for my k/d ratio but it definitely isnt what I would consider "fun". Of course I could just ignore 'em....but if I do that then pretty soon the field I am flying from has no more fuel or no hangars.

How about some code that makes bombs from heavies have to travel like 10k in alt for them to be hot?

beet1e · « **Reply #24 on:** June 04, 2003, 03:36:05 AM »

I like slapshot's idea of having more mannable ack, and locating it close to sensitive areas that need to be defended - fuel. I don't think more AI ack is the answer because then it will make targets so difficult to reach that they might as well not be there. (Sneak attacks would not be viable, and we'd back to the old numerical supremacy smashdown) It would be interesting to see if the jabo porkers still bother to turn up, if a more effective defence against them is possible.

Lazs, not wanting to turn this into a "tea or coffee" debate, but I really don't like the idea of perked bombs. If you did jabo missions yourself, you would understand how difficult it is to get to the target with sufficient alt. This is especially true in Euro hours. (Numbers were 82 at 10am, 137 at 5pm - local times) In a heavily loaded P47 for example, you are a sitting duck if spotted by the LA7 cherrypicker, and that's one of the problems about having fields closer together. If we're going to perk bombs because we do not like the dweebish way in which they are sometimes deployed, then we must also perk LA7 ammo because of all the dweebish vulching. Most people would agree that selective perking would be unworkable. My point is that we have to have a better reason to perk weaponry, other than the fact that we "don't like" the effect it can have.

lazs2 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 04, 2003, 08:32:45 AM »

manable ack would be different from the fleet ack.. if you had a lot of quad fifties at fields I gurentee that people would man em and with the quads it would be very dificult to cause damage with a suicide dive or... by taking 3 51's up and porking fuel at a couple of undefended bases... guys would check the flashing field and man the fifties... you can bet on it.

beetle... why should a person be able to take the very best ordinance up without earning it and then abuse the privilage by commiting suicide with it? If we, fighter pilots, want the best planes we have to "earn" em.. if we suicide with em then we probly will run out of perkies and not be able to fly em. Same with bombs. the bomb point perk value could easily be adjusted and start very low.
lazs

beet1e · « **Reply #26 on:** June 04, 2003, 09:14:46 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
beetle... why should a person be able to take the very best ordinance up without earning it and then abuse the privilage by commiting suicide with it? If we, fighter pilots, want the best planes we have to "earn" em.. if we suicide with em then we probly will run out of perkies and not be able to fly em. Same with bombs. the bomb point perk value could easily be adjusted and start very low.
lazs

Well in that case, why should we allow newbies to take off in LA7s to go to a nearby field to vulch?

Sorry to answer a question with a question, but you get my drift. And most people will see how unworkable and unfair a bomb perk system would become, notwithstanding the fact that it would be impossible to earn the necessary perk points in the first place. The whole thing would be a big can of worms, Lazs. Best leave the lid on it.

SlapShot · « **Reply #27 on:** June 04, 2003, 09:34:35 AM »

"Well in that case, why should we allow newbies to take off in LA7s to go to a nearby field to vulch?

Because they are newbies and will get clubbed like baby seals in an La-7.

Beet1e, you need to leave the"perk the La-7" theme out of your responses, it does not do them justice ... it taints them.

beet1e · « **Reply #28 on:** June 04, 2003, 10:03:37 AM »

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Originally posted by SlapShot
Beet1e, you need to leave the"perk the La-7" theme out of your responses, it does not do them justice ... it taints them.

Slap - you misunderstand. But in so doing, you make my point perfectly: It would be quite absurd to perk LA7 ammo, just as it would be quite absurd to perk jabo bombs.

MadBirdCZ · « **Reply #29 on:** June 04, 2003, 11:30:28 AM »

Dragging into ack - so why not make the automatic ack kill anything it hits... Including friendly planes?

I guess it would learn those ack draggers not to fly directly to their own ack.... Plus make the ack code so it does not fire when the view is obstructed not only by terrain but also friendly plane for longer than some "decission" period of time....

After this is introduced, I will not have problem with automatic ack and ack huggers.... Also (as requested so many times in past) tracers for the manual ack!!

But I guess none of the above will happen... Well at least not until AH2 is out I guess....