Author Topic: Does This Count As WMD???  (Read 1885 times)

Offline Syzygyone

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Does This Count As WMD???
« on: June 05, 2003, 03:15:14 PM »
Okay, this just in.  Does it count as WMD?
I didn't think Iraq was supposed to hav any nuclear program?



"U.S. recovered more than 100 barrels from around looted Iraqi nuclear site

By Matt Kelley, Associated Press, 6/5/2003 11:31
WASHINGTON (AP) American forces have gathered more than 100 metal barrels and five radiological devices which Iraqis may have looted from the country's largest nuclear storage site, Pentagon officails said Thursday.

None of the people who turned in the contraband for rewards of $3 showed any more than background levels of radiation, the military officials said. And none of the equipment was emitting more radiation than slightly above background levels, they said.

But American officials still aren't sure what else may have been stolen from the Tuwaitha nuclear complex during the war, said three top military and Defense Department officials who briefed reporters on the issue on condition they not be named.

Iraq stored tons of uranium and other radioactive materials at ''Site C,'' a complex of three buildings at Tuwaitha surrounded by a 12-foot fence and concrete barrier. When U.S. Marines arrived there April 7, the front gate was open and the rear wall was breached. Inside, some radioactive material was scattered around and it was clear the site had been looted.

Local Iraqis later told the Americans that the Iraqi soldiers guarding Tuwaitha left on March 10, before the war started, and civilian guards abandoned the site March 20, the day before American ground forces entered Iraq from Kuwait.

U.S. forces doing an inventory of Site C found more there than they expected, the officials said. They said they don't know whether that means the U.S. expectations were inaccurate, if Iraq moved more radioactive material there before the war or something else was happening.

The Pentagon officials said they were still concerned that some radioactive material could have been stolen from the site, but they could not know for sure until a complete inventory could be taken.

The looting has raised the possiblity that terrorist groups could have obtained material for a radiological ''dirty bomb'' from the site. None of the material at Tuwaitha was of high enough quality to make a nuclear bomb, but some of the material could be teamed with conventional explosives to spew low levels of radioactivity over a relatively large area.

A seven-member team from the International Atomic Energy Agency is scheduled to arrive at Tuwaitha Saturday to begin assessing what material is there and what may have been stolen. The IAEA a United Nations agency had sealed and monitored the storage site for years to enforce the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

The United States agreed to let the IAEA team visit the Tuwaitha site only after repeated pleas from IAEA director Mohammed ElBaradei. The top Pentagon officials said the IAEA visit did not set a precedent for other U.N. weapons inspectors to return to Iraq.

''The U.S. has the resources to handle the disarmament of Iraq and other tasks,'' said one official in the Pentagon's policy-making office.

His boss, who also spoke to reporters on condition of anonymity, said the main American worry was for the safety of U.N. workers. U.S. troops will provide security for the IAEA team and accompany them wherever they go, this official said.

Some people in the villages surrounding the Tuwaitha site have complained of health problems they blame on radiation exposure. At least some of the barrels looted from the site which had been used to store uranium were emptied and used to store drinking water.

The Pentagon is sending a medical team to the area to investigate any health effects of the looting. The team should arrive next week, and will study people living within a three-mile radius of Site C, the Pentagon officials said.

The United States also is training a 100-man Iraqi security force to guard the facility once the Americans leave, the Pentagon officials said."

« Last Edit: June 05, 2003, 03:43:42 PM by Syzygyone »

Offline ra

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Does This Count As Wmd???
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2003, 03:27:05 PM »
No this doesn't count.  This is just the remnant of Iraq's old nuclear power program which Israel put an end to in the 80's.

Iraq really needed a nuclear powerplant, what with their severe shortage of fuel.  

:rolleyes:

ra

Offline Syzygyone

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Does This Count As Wmd???
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2003, 03:32:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ra
No this doesn't count.  This is just the remnant of Iraq's old nuclear power program which Israel put an end to in the 80's.

Iraq really needed a nuclear powerplant, what with their severe shortage of fuel.  

:rolleyes:

ra


Are not dirty bombs as much or more of a concern as actual nuclear bombs becaue the dirty bombs are easier to make and smuggle albeit they would do less direct damage?

Offline capt. apathy

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Does This Count As Wmd???
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2003, 05:06:57 PM »
Quote
Are not dirty bombs as much or more of a concern as actual nuclear bombs becaue the dirty bombs are easier to make and smuggle albeit they would do less direct damage?


having resources that you could use to make WMD, and actually having the weapons are 2 completely different things.

I could probably find enough stuff in your house to make some sort of devise that could be used for terrorist purposes. but that does not make you a terrorist.

in order to have our 'smoking gun'  you'd actually have to find evidence that these resources where used in that way, or something that outlined an actual plan to do so.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2003, 05:19:21 PM »
So now that we found this material you are saying the only stuff that really counts is that you consider usable by a regular military....   Of course you forget our claim that he could supply suitable mqaterial to terrorists.

Funny Chit!!!

I bet if we do find some chemical weapons for example you guys will pop in cheerfully saying it doesnt count because he didnt actually use them in the last war and of course the predetrmined fact that the CIA planted it all.  

:p

Offline Syzygyone

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Welll...
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2003, 05:34:09 PM »
Grun, without flaming, I am curious as to what will be considered WMD.  Does it have to be sarin gas, or anthrax, already in a projectile all ready for loading.

One of the biggest concerns we have is a radiologic device.  It is such a concern that the goverment entities which used to consider CBN (chemical, biological and nuclear) now have changed their mission to CBRN, Chemical Biological, Radioactive and Nuclear.

So, I ask the question, do not barrels and barrels of radioactive material, which could easily be placed into an explosive disperal device, constitute a WMD?

If it is not such, is it because it isn't radioactive enough.  If that's the case, at what mesaurement of radioactivity does it become a WMD as opposed to just a WMD component.

Capt. Apathy, no one was talking about your house or even about whether or not you are a terrorist.  :D   j/k

But since you posted, I'll respetfully suggest that you probably have an idea of only about a third of the stuff that's in your house that could be used to make a terrorist bomb.  Therein lies the point, though.  Take common household bleach.  It can be used to make really efficient bombs.  So, say you are a nut about really white shirts.  And you have a few gallons on hand at all times.  At what point do we stop ignoring items that are only the "components" of a WMD, since as you suggest having the components is different from having the WMDs?  

Just asking! :D :D

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2003, 05:41:01 PM »
Nothing will be considered WMD evidence to these people, if any are found they will cheerfully be declared as irrelevant or as is allready the case they will call it a CIA consipiracy to plant WMD evidence.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2003, 05:48:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Syzygyone
Are not dirty bombs as much or more of a concern as actual nuclear bombs becaue the dirty bombs are easier to make and smuggle albeit they would do less direct damage?


AFAIK, no one has ever used a dirty bomb. It's all speculative at this point.
sand

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2003, 05:59:01 PM »
Ahh yes back to the stupid why cant Iraq have WMD material when other countries have it to... :rolleyes:

Anyway Gscholz I dont care any more, Saddam is gone and their WMD program is over. WTG USA!

Offline Duedel

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« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2003, 06:25:02 PM »
WMD = Weapons sold by western coutries

I dont know why there is a discussion about WMD.
Sure Iraq has WMD - sold by us. The question is why was Mr. Wolfowitz and the US government where unable to make it clear thats not the No. 1 reason to invade the Iraq.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Does This Count As Wmd???
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2003, 06:26:03 PM »
I donno Gcscolz I've kinda given up on argung some points rationlly sometimes - for example when blitz and other USA haters said they would not belive any WMD evidence at all under any circumstance baecause it would be 100% for sure a CIA plot...

What point is rational arguing when faced with that sort of bizzare predispositon?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2003, 06:28:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Duedel
WMD = Weopnes sold by western coutries

I dont know why there is a discussion about WMD.
Sure Iraq has WMD sold by us. The question is why is


Or posts like this which somehow try to justify or rationalize Saddams illegal posseison of WMD after the first gulf war cease fire agreement because in past when he was legally allowed to have them western countries sold it to him....

How can you rsspond to such an obsurd post as that?

Offline Duedel

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« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2003, 06:29:03 PM »
Oh and why if WMD was No. 1 (and the two other reasons too) the USA is not invading North Korea and ... uhm why not Russia cause they definitly sell dangerous material to all they want it.

Offline Nash

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Does This Count As Wmd???
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2003, 06:34:38 PM »
The majority aren't arguing that. You're just as much on the fringe as them (eg. no different than blitz) if this is really what you think, and there's not much point in arguing with you about it if these are the kinds of positions yer going to be taking. The story here is the looting... not these useless barrels that have been known about for decades.

Offline Duedel

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« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2003, 06:34:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Or posts like this which somehow try to justify or rationalize Saddams illegal posseison of WMD after the first gulf war cease fire agreement because in past when he was legally allowed to have them western countries sold it to him....

How can you rsspond to such an obsurd post as that?


Grunherz  this is just for u: we (western democratic nations) sold WMD to Iraq. Why? Cause we want a counterpoint to Iran. Now? We invade Iraq. Why? Cause u (the USA and his yes man) want to alter their faults.
Grunherz u already have ur green card (in contrast to Hortlund)?