Author Topic: time to shoot runners again (Read 999 times)

bigsky · « **Reply #15 on:** June 25, 2003, 12:56:52 AM »

jamusta is correct, to a point. the problem with the army is it is THE ARMY, the clintons have had there PC way with things. we cant recruit people who can do there job and be a reliable soldier too. they can make more money outside the army for the same job. but not have to do the rifleman thing. every soldier is a soldier no matter if he is combat arms or not. this principal the jarheads seemed to have worked out. the primary problem is that we spend a lot money on new gadegets that dont really help that much. we need to get back to fundimentels of small unit leadership. its not complicated folks its INFANTRY. not F-22s. we are not gearing up to fight group soviet forces in western europe, we are going to fight the small mean battles of U.S.A. interests in the world. if we follow the russian model of things with draftees getting thrown in to a fight that they have not been trained for( i.e. chechnia) where they have to pay very extra to the good soldiers who know how to fight. then what state are the U.S. army in? i think the US would be better off if we got the old school army guys back. the working class types who were in for the training to get those decent jobs. but thats my opinion. but to the point if that 507th c.o. ever made it back alive he should have been punishied in the old way. stripped of his rank and army insignia, his officer sword broken and a yellow stripe painted down his back and cast out of the army and fort while the troopers of his command turned there backs(obout face) on him. this would set an good example to the cowards of the army officer corps. those guys are officers they should lead from the front. they should come back with there shields or on them.
bigsky " if you aint CAV you aint ****"

Sandman · « **Reply #16 on:** June 25, 2003, 12:58:20 AM »

I went into the Navy in 1982. That PC **** started way ahead of Clinton. No question.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #17 on:** June 25, 2003, 01:18:41 AM »

Carter!!!

bigsky · « **Reply #18 on:** June 25, 2003, 02:34:23 AM »

since you you posted here fishu, since when did you win one??

Fishu · « **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2003, 03:00:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bigsky
since you you posted here fishu, since when did you win one??

Well... havent been much civil wars lately over here :>

There was civil war in the begining of last century thou...

bigsky · « **Reply #20 on:** June 25, 2003, 03:20:42 AM »

this is kind of an american post fishu, so i dont expect to understand. us marines vs us army is not a civil war it a rivalry. thats all.

LePaul · « **Reply #21 on:** June 25, 2003, 09:50:21 AM »

to the grunts.

I was very eager to train when I joined the USAF...I guess the writing was on the wall when we got 2 hours or M-16 training...and even that piece of crap was converted to fire .22 LR instead of 5.56. Jammed every 3rd round. Gee, great training.

Best fun I had at the tail end of my Air National Guard career was being assigned to a security police group. Great guys, almost all former Marines and they took me away from my clerical crap to go shoot with them. Had a blast. Heck I knew more about C4 and M-60's than filing payroll for a long time

Rude · « **Reply #22 on:** June 25, 2003, 10:03:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fishu
Since you peeps like the war so much.. how about US Army vs. US Marines civil war?

It's not at all that we "like" war Fishu....it's simply the fact that we are not bleeding heart, left wing socialists such as yourself.

It feels good to understand things now don't it?

Fishu · « **Reply #23 on:** June 25, 2003, 06:48:02 PM »

Yes it's clear, mister facist.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #24 on:** June 25, 2003, 06:54:23 PM »

Wow I have been called a marxist and a fascist in the some day, must be doing something right!!!

davidpt40 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 25, 2003, 07:18:31 PM »

I heard from 2 different sources the 507th was attacked by Iraqi tanks. Any truth to this?

Raubvogel · « **Reply #26 on:** June 25, 2003, 07:30:26 PM »

Nothing like drawing a generalization about the entire support force of the Army based on the performance of 1 unit.

If I was going to focus attention on any one aspect of that incident, it would be focused on the navigation error that lead them to be there in the first place. Simple attention to a very basic skill could have avoided the whole situation.

Another important fact that is conveniently omitted: Being ambushed at night in unfamiliar territory tends to negate a slight numerical advantage.

Don't get me wrong, I know that support units certainly aren't as competent in tactical skills as combat arms units(god how I know), but I think that article is a bit dramatic and draws many conclusions from a single episode.

Charon · « **Reply #27 on:** June 26, 2003, 11:31:57 AM »

Raub, Hackworth's article is somewhat a followup to this one, which describes modern coed training practices for the non combat arms:

http://www.hackworth.com/article04032002c.html

Quote

I feel the flashback coming -- the day I got off the train at Fort Knox ("Come here, dogface. Your bellybutton is mine." ). I see myself a few days later trotting around the parade ground, holding the 60-pound base-plate of a 81mm mortar over my head, screaming "I'M a BIG bellybutton BIRD" at the top of my voice, shouting and staggering until my arms finally give out, the steel plate misses my head by a hair, and I'm lying with my nose in the mud wondering if I'll ever get out of Basic alive.

The point being, of course, that the very ruthlessness of the drill hardened me for something one hell of a lot more brutal.

Combat.

"That's not our mission," Lt. Col. Henry says. The rough stuff's for the shock troops training at Benning. "Here we're inoculating them for the prospect of maybe having a fight, hanging in there until the cavalry or infantry arrives to save the day."

Tough training for the line units, marshmallows for the rear? Talk about denial. In modern warfare, there is no front. Command and control nodes, airfields, supply dumps, logistics units, transport, the hospital, everything's fair game. If anything, in guerrilla warfare and terrorist actions, those targets are even more likely to be hit. A young sergeant I know put it this way: 'That U.S. Army name tag on your chest is the biggest bull's-eye in the world. These young soldiers are going to be in Korea. They're going to be in Bosnia. They are really exposed, man. When our cooks and clerks ran convoys of deuces and hummers through the streets of Mogadishu, do you think the Somalis were not going to shoot at them because they were 'noncombatants'''

I recommend Hackworth's "To Steel My Soldiers' Hearts" and "About Face" for anyone interested in looking at "Hack's" fascinating military career and his views on the shortcomings of the US "career" orientated officer development system. Ticket punchers looking to ride the gravy train.

I know I never had very much fun during my 14 weeks of 19D OSUT at Ft. Knox back in 1985. The last four weeks of AIT were as tough as the first four weeks of basic.

Charon

jamusta · « **Reply #28 on:** June 26, 2003, 05:22:32 PM »

anonymous

NTC was a dream duty station is you like doing mock combat. Its 200 square miles of brigade size desert combat 2 weeks every month. I was communications chief for the Air Defense unit assigned to take out the helo units. During battles I was my 1st Sgts driver. He would shoot down th apaches since I didnt know how to use a stinger missle. And I would hunt down the Bradleys with my Dragon missle. I was also apart of Team Spectre which was used to do convoy interdictions and raids on the rear support elements. The biggest game of laser tag in the world.